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Should I be an architect?

Feb 10 '13 53 Last Comment
jimbodnini
Feb 10, 13 11:33 am

Hello

I am a 2nd year mechanical engineering student, and I have an interest in architecture.

However, currently I am on the fence about whether I should actually pursue it. I believe I have some traits required for a good architect, but I'm worried that shortcomings in my personality makes me ill suited for this career.

I am very indecisive about this at the moment due to my lack of experience and knowledge, and would appreciate some advice from you about whether I should be an architect.

So here's my brief character sketch:

Advantages:

- I am very adept at organizing events or projects because I have very good imagination and vision.
- I am very good at making presentations.
- Pragmatic and have good taste.
- I enjoy writing and sketching. I think I am more of a humanities person than a technical person.
- If I were to go into architecture I will devote myself completely to practicing and learning and getting better. I am not afraid of hard work and am willing to go the distance.

Disadvantages:

- Poor social skills. This is the one thing that's causing me to hesitate becoming an architect. Networking and making friends and showing off was never a strong point for me. I am very shy and can be very socially awkward/self conscious on a bad day. I don't think I'm very likable (low self esteem).
- Afraid of speaking up in front of strangers. It's weird but although I feel very comfortable in making presentations to people, if its in a spontaneous situation e.g. a free group discussion, I always get tongue tied and end up not speaking much.
- Being too modest, inability to directly show off.
- I hate modern architecture (buildings of weird shapes and dimensions), I do not see any beauty in it. I believe beauty lies in symmetry and stability.

So in summary I have some strengths but horrible social skills. Am I still able to succeed as an architect?

 

Beepbeep
Feb 10, 13 12:30 pm

You will have a tough time at crits if you put up symmetrical and stable designs from what I have witnessed in architecture school... I would recommend finishing your mechanical engineering degree first ...it is a great education and will provide you the ability to actually make some money. However after you finish your mechanical engineering degree and you still are interested in architecture you can get an master of architecture. And your undergraduate studies will be advantageous setting you up for success and you will even probably get advanced placement in structures courses and building systems. I would recommend mastering the technology available to you in engineering such as solid works, rapid prototyping and other design production methods, that industry is always years ahead of technology in architecture. Architecture is also sometimes filled with a collection of the worst human beings that think they are artsy, philosophical, and so pretentious just a heads up....

observant
Feb 10, 13 2:12 pm

Architecture is also sometimes filled with a collection of the worst human beings that think they are artsy, philosophical, and so pretentious just a heads up....

You have the tenacity and the interest, as displayed in paragraph 1.  The fact that you are in M.E. indicates you have the mental horsepower.

You note some things in paragraph 2 that indicate concern, and it isn't even what you claim to be your social skills.  At the end of HS, I would not feel comfortable making a presentation.  At the end of undergraduate, I could make a presentation.  That comes with time and practice.  Also, there are many introverts in architecture school. The part that concerned me was your perception of what you think is good architecture.  Architecture school doesn't want to see symmetrical buildings from every student.  In fact, when I was a kid, I liked buildings that were NOT symmetrical, but balanced, unless the building was so geometrically unique, that the symmetry became secondary.  Here's an example (the LAX theme building, with restaurant and observation deck):

http://architypereview.com/img/uploaded/review-issues/27/lax-theme-building.jpg

One of the first terms I learned within a week of arriving to architecture school was "asymmetrically symmetrical."  It means that while it's not perfectly symmetrical, the parts of the building are complementary enough, as a mass, to be balanced, or "feel" symmetrical.  I agree with you that there have been waves of garbage spewed out, which quickly came and then fell out of favor.  However, there has been modernist work that has been considered good since its construction, decades ago.

As for the comment I quoted above, there is indeed an ugly breed within architecture.  My favorite word is pissy - a mixture of artsy, pretentious, theoretical, and sometimes even  a dose of gender nonconforming attributes thrown into the mix.  I came to architecture from a background where you went to class, turned in homework, wrote papers, and took both quantitative and verbal tests, and with egos not that rampant.  So, some of the students and some of the profs were a slight shock to the system.  There's a large contingent of arsty-fartsy and, on the other side, a contingent of people who are more similar to engineers, particularly if at a large, more staid state architecture school.  Most students are somewhere in between.  Like anything else, one finds their niche.  I found my place on this continuum, and my friends, and there were some people with whom I doubted I'd ever have much in common.

If you want to explore this further, you should talk to architects, visit architecture programs, and lastly, take assessment tests to gauge this.  Your school counseling center should be able to help you with this.  That said, be aware that there are several types of tests.  One they often give is a Strong Interest Inventory which doesn't measure skills, but what you have in common (the "fit")  with those in a field.  Ask that you take another one which also shows which skills you like to use, or what it is that you ENJOY doing.  Merge the results of those two tests.

I concur with the advice given above.  If you are halfway through a BSME, it behooves you to finish it.  I know that my vacillating feelings during my undergraduate education were distracting, even though I did well.  Do well in your current curriculum and compartmentalize your time devoted to exploring another career to avoid distraction.   Like shimmyshaw said, architecture can be pursued as a M.Arch. and takes about 3 years.  You will need to demonstrate graphic and compositional ability to get in via a portfolio and you can work on that in the summers, or after your graduate with your engineering degree.  For you, I would suggest a more "bread and butter" architecture school, and not an avant garde one.

In closing: (a) finish your engineering degree and do well, (b) take some aptitude tests (more than one), (c) take courses in summer or after graduation to help you build a portfolio, (d) find a school that is a match for you, (e) enroll in a M.Arch. if you finally decide to pursue it, (f) if you work long enough to pass the P.E., retain it in case you find yourself pushing to 'eject button" if you feel a-school, or the work is not right for you.

I wish you the best.

Snoopy316
Feb 10, 13 2:43 pm

Architecture can be very rewarding as 'some' of the lecturers at university tells me. Architecture is a difficult career and please don't do it of u want to make some money as 'most' people tells me including those who are in the profession. As you can see I chose to listen and believe in the minority. I yet to see any reward but deep inside I still believe in the profession and it's just a matter of time till I see a break through. However reading forums over the Internet doesn't look too promising as many experience architects have said its a dying profession, some in their 50s and 60s work for very little money but feels satisfy they say. I wouldn't be saying the same if I find myself at that age working my whole life with nothing saved up. I'm not saying not to become an architect but to became a creative architect and a smart one. Just don't listen to those who say they don't do it for the money but for the love......

observant
Feb 10, 13 3:28 pm

Just don't listen to those who say they don't do it for the money but for the love......

Agreed.  These are the bohemians and  mercenaries.  It's all about making a sculptural statement for people to worship.  They hurt the profession at all levels.  That name firms pulling in big commissions extend below market pay and deplorable working conditions to intern architects who want to cut their teeth there should have them be "greeted" with license suspensions, until rectified, and some other sanctions which would deter this "problem" in the field, particularly with the starchitects or "hot" places to work. 

Miles JaffeMiles Jaffe
Feb 10, 13 4:15 pm

indecisive ... with lack of experience and knowledge

That makes you an ideal candidate for architecture, and you'll be in good company.

jimbodnini
Feb 10, 13 6:25 pm

Hey guys

Thanks for the responses, they helped me out a lot. 

I guess you are right that symmetrical buildings won't live up to the critics because of their lack of creativity and originality. I actually meant to say balanced buildings, not symmetrical buildings, so we're already on the same boat ;). 

I will go ask counsellors, take a few courses, and maybe try to find some sort of internship if I can to get a taste of architecture. And of course try to develop my communication skills. 

ONE more thing though. If I do go for architecture (masters), should I transfer from mechanical engineering to civil engineering? Because once I make the decision about architecture, I won't be changing it. So won't two more years of learning about machines be a complete waste of time? But on the other hand, switching to civil requires me to repeat second year (although with extra elective slots for potential arch course). Is it worth it?

My dream would be to start a successful architecture + structural engineering firm, where clients give us the requirements, and we pump out complete plans for a beautiful building xD. To do that I'll need to know both structural eng + arch. Any opinions?

Thanks in advance!!!

Jimmy

observant
Feb 10, 13 6:46 pm

Jimmy:  Could you switch and still finish in 4 years, or thereabouts?  You were attracted to ME.  Should you decide to remain an engineer, would you be ok with being a civil or structural engineer, instead of a mechanical engineer?  Weigh that.  Don't bite off more than you can chew right now.  If you went M.Arch. and picked a place with additional structures courses, then I suppose you could also qualify for the P.E. exam. 

The way I've seen it done is BSCE ...work and P.E. ... M.Arch ... work and A.R.E.  Then, the person picks if they're going to be an architect or a structural engineer.  Generally, they are not working as both.  However, such a person could work toward managing an A/E firm, though they would retain an identity as mostly one or the other.

jimbodnini
Feb 10, 13 7:38 pm

Hey observant

Well if I switch to civil I'd take an extra year to finish (in total my undergrad would take 5 years + 1 year of internship if I choose). And yea I'd be satisfied with civil, I like it as much as mechanical. 

How's the job market for architects? I heard from some people that it's almost impossible to get a job and most just end up drafting. 

Snoopy316
Feb 10, 13 7:51 pm

Jim,

Do you really want to know the truth of the first few years of architecture and what task you will be doing if you find a job? I can tell you if you think you will be sitting at a desk designing award wining building then that's far beyond the truth lol drafting toilet layout? yes

jimbodnini
Feb 10, 13 8:19 pm

Yea man I had many many people tell me that architecture is not as romantic as it seems.

Whats depressing is that it takes a long long time for an architect to get anywhere (I heard they reach their max potential at 55 y/o!). I mean, I don't mind designing toilets and stuff in the beginning but I don't want to be pigeonholed into doing it for the rest of my life haha. 

Job prospects is really annoying. Parents and friends are saying I should stay in engineering because its MUCH easier to get a job and much more stable...and higher pay. 

I think I'll ignore consideration for job markets and consider purely my interests for now. I guess I'll try out lots of architecture programs in the summer to gauge the interest first, and if I still like it I'll just transfer to civil and go for it....if not I'ma stick to mechanical for the rest of my life xD. I know its never good to keep changing your mind, because no matter what you choose, the going will get tough and you will get bored. Persistence is essential!

Snoopy316
Feb 10, 13 8:23 pm

observant "These are the bohemians and mercenaries.  It's all about making a sculptural statement for people to worship.  They hurt the profession at all levels."

Yes this is true, and I doubt the people who passed on these statement were all that convinced themselve when they first inherit it from their lecture, tutor, the architect they had 1 week work experience with etc... but yet still carry it and passing it to the newer generation. Definately the mis-leading need to be stopped. Well at least start with stop telling people "it's not about the money it's about the love" statement because deep down we all know it's not true. The only time (in my opinion) the statement is true are for those who are from a well off background and doesn't need to worry about actually making a living. I think there are more and more of these people who are coming into the profession who are willing to work for the "love" and close to nothing which makes it hard for those who rely on the real bread and butter. 

Snoopy316
Feb 10, 13 8:32 pm

Jim,

All I can say is, don't let other people get into your mind. I've had so many people telling me architecture is hard and not worth doing too when I was your age. The only person who stuck with me is my mum. She knows nothing about the profession or the economy. All she know is that whatever I do I will suceed. All she cares about is cook at home and making sure i have enough to keep me going. Up until today she still knows nothing about the profession, had she know she will probably want me to become a doctor, layer or even accountant or something. My father in law has no respect for my field as he know it real well and like typical father in law nothing I do is good enough for her daughter anyway. But I ain't quitting yet because I still have faith in this profession. You just need to be creative and think different.

observant
Feb 10, 13 9:22 pm

Well if I switch to civil I'd take an extra year to finish (in total my undergrad would take 5 years + 1 year of internship if I choose). And yea I'd be satisfied with civil, I like it as much as mechanical. 

How's the job market for architects? I heard from some people that it's almost impossible to get a job and most just end up drafting

I can't decide for you ... and whether you want to invest another year in a bachelor's degree.  Perhaps the question is which type of engineer you'd rather be if, in the end, you didn't pursue architecture.

The job market depends on the area, school, portfolio, connections made via profs and visiting practitioners, relevant computer knowledge, luck, and how the interview process goes (they look for a "fit" with the firm).  Expect to sit behind a computer and draft.  That's how you learn the sequence of putting together a building, together with the work of other consultants.  While I was working before M.Arch., I went to community college at night to take drawing, get more current on calculus (unnecessary, in the end), and even a year of CDs under an architect teaching in the evenings.  I knew I'd be drafting.  It's easier, and safer, to know how things are assembled before designing them.  Don't expect to have someone sit you down and ask you to design a suburb's new civic center as soon as you leave school.   That's a recipe for disappointment.

will gallowaywill galloway
Feb 11, 13 1:02 am

Only way to find out is to jump in and give it a try.

Funny enough, in spite of Observant's observation my very first job in office full time was to design a church in city centre as design lead. Senior architects were made my assistants. Crazy I know. I had a cool boss who thought it was a good idea to let us jump in from the top.

There is no standard way of practicing architecture. There is no typical office, not really. The thing will be to find a job and a school that suit you. Neither of those things are easy especially nowadays. But you don't need to be an extrovert to be an architect. And square buildings with symmetry as the defining element are also totally coolio. Lots of amazing contemporary practices who do nothing but...

Architecture doesn't require you to change. It is a profession that can be molded to suit you. So don't sweat that stuff. More important is to work out where you want to be and what you want to do. Whether you can do that or not is a separate question from what it takes to be an architect. There are no natural boundaries that say you can or can't make a go of it.

Only honest bit of advice is to not feel the need to lock yourself in. If you hate it then get out. Either way you'll be leaping off of a cliff so it makes sense to be willing to grab onto a branch once you see the terrain ahead a bit better. Flexibility is the name of the game this century...

observant
Feb 11, 13 1:18 am

Will,

Some people, actually very few people, are identified as being especially talented in design early on, and the technical architects are either amenable to supporting them, and some might be torqued.  I worked for a 30 person firm where a person from a decent school cranked out a couple of tasteful small commercial buildings, clicked with the principal he worked under, and kept this post (the management there is going to grow old together, per the website), while others rotated out because upward mobility was limited.

In that office, I got to draw what he designed (he knew what he was doing) and learned more about the detailing of curtain walls, different types of cladding, various fussy adjacent glazing/cladding conditions, and I said to myself "I can wait until I see more of this and can wait a little longer to design," but then, I'm more linear, as if that isn't obvious.  That office was also the place from which I took the A.R.E.  The "design first"  approach works when there is a great supporting cast.  I'm glad I waited longer to design some projects because, as I was drawing, I was also able to x-ray how it would go together.

Gmatc
Feb 11, 13 3:07 am

Personally, I'd be an engineer.  That's what I wanted to be.

Gmatc
Feb 11, 13 3:12 am

I'm surprised no-one has asked what your goals in architecture would be.  There are various types of degrees, locations and ways of obtaining license (I'm assuming you're in USA).  Why don't you design a few structures?

jla-x
Feb 11, 13 10:51 am

don't get married unless you can't imagine life without her....don't get into architecture unless you can't imagine life without it!

observant
Feb 11, 13 1:33 pm

jla-x

I know very few divorced architects, actually.  Oftentimes, they are married to other architects, people in allied fields, or people in other demanding professions that also take many hours.  Many are single, as in not having married. 

Architects also tend to crank out few kids, usually 1 or 2, for the most part.  A good number are married and child free.

jla-x
Feb 11, 13 1:41 pm

that wasn't the point.

observant
Feb 11, 13 1:54 pm

then what was?

gwharton
Feb 11, 13 3:38 pm

RE: the original question,

As with the age-old question "can I afford it?", if you have to ask, the answer is "No."

observant
Feb 11, 13 4:15 pm

As with the age-old question "can I afford it?", if you have to ask, the answer is "No."

^

Actually, this is a good point.  In my studio of about 20, 2 were children of doctors and 2 were children of dentists so, by default, they could.  For the others, they chose to do it anyway and swept that question under the rug.

Maybe the question for the men is "As an architect, can you afford the wife you want?"  Few, if any, male architectural students and practitioners have what the general populace would consider really attractive wives.  Those go to celebrities and guys who make in big in other professions, because women know better.  There are some exceptions.

It shouldn't change someone's desire to go into the field, but it's another one of the realities.  Many women, including educated ones, can't relate to creative, articulate men.  Sorry, I call it as I see it. 

Snoopy316
Feb 11, 13 4:21 pm

When you marry someone its because you love them for who they are. When you choose a career path, it's almost the same thing. But sometimes it changes along the way and some feel they have the responsibilty to change it back to what it use to be. Architects in the past have full respect, we suppose to be in levelled with lawyers, doctors etc, what happened? somewhere, somehow, somebody f'd it all up. Clients don't value our service as much as they used to, councils and authority putting restrictions on us, consultants milking it all. No good....

observant
Feb 11, 13 4:31 pm

^

I agree with what you are saying.

Someone along the way effed up the whole professional perception of architects and it's like a flu that is passed down generationally.

One should not pick a profession based on its ability to attract a spouse.  There are doctors and lawyers who can't attract spouses or are in miserable marriages.  My whole attitude toward a chosen line of work is:  "Can I stay awake doing this for 8+ hours a day?"

will gallowaywill galloway
Feb 11, 13 4:39 pm

Architecture. Don't go it. Your wife might be ugly.

Seriously.



I don't know why so much negativity about this career. There are lots of ways to be an architect. Doesn't have to be an all in sort of thing unless you want to do it that way. Enjoy your life first and let the rest take care of itself.

btw, 3 kids and lovely wife, myself. And I grew up without trustfund. Go figure.

observant
Feb 11, 13 4:49 pm

Will,

I don't have negativity.  It's a veritable compendium of pros and cons, and they almost perfectly counterbalance.  Why not tell the truth? The professionalism can be ramped up.  There's no denying that.  My friends also like being architects, but mention the things they themselves deem to be unprofessional, and choose to remain in it.  Ditto.  The mere fact that it is a creative profession, albeit a regulated one, doesn't change that built-in problem.

And what one considers to be lovely may not be lovely to someone else.  For the generic university student in America, they'll probably all admit that the most attractive collegiate women are those of basic European-American stock and majoring in marketing or childhood education.  They're not in engineering, anthropology ... or even the arts for that matter.

Miles JaffeMiles Jaffe
Feb 11, 13 5:31 pm

Anything is one of a million paths. Therefore you must always keep in mind that a path is only a path; if you feel you should not follow it, you must not stay with it under any conditions. To have such clarity you must lead a disciplined life. Only then will you know that any path is only a path and there is no affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you to do. But your decision to keep on the path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition. I warn you. Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary.

This question is one that only a very old man asks. Does this path have a heart? All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. They are paths going through the bush, or into the bush. In my own life I could say I have traversed long long paths, but I am not anywhere. Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't, it is of no use. Both paths lead nowhere; but one has a heart, the other doesn't. One makes for a joyful journey; as long as you follow it, you are one with it. The other will make you curse your life. One makes you strong; the other weakens you.

The Teachings of Don Juan, Carlos Castaneda

observant
Feb 11, 13 6:27 pm

Miles:

I have a friend from Philly.  She's sort of an "alpha" and of the same ethnic stock, so we get along and simultaneously spar.  Since I would consult with her on various conundrums, the maxim she once offered was:

"The positives have to outweigh the negatives."

That calibration is different for everyone.  That expression is simple, yet packs a punch.

Miles JaffeMiles Jaffe
Feb 11, 13 6:51 pm

observant,

Part of the problem is faulty value systems, putting value on the wrong things. Our society is an all-too-clear demonstration of this.

will gallowaywill galloway
Feb 12, 13 6:30 am

so what you are saying observant is that my wife is not lovely?  seriously?  you wanna step outside?  ;-)

observant
Feb 12, 13 12:41 pm

Haven't seen her, Will.  Evidently she likes guys who either look like a younger version of bearded James Brolin or look like they'd be on a fresco in the Sistine Chapel.  Why don't you put up a picture of her if you need to convince us?  But that would be too personal, so don't.  However, as you know, I'm linear and opinionated.  Being a Europhile (Italophile and Francophile), and having that ethnic composition, largely the former, those are the most likely places in the world where the women turn my head, but their stateside/Canadian equivalents also have the same effect.

And here we are trying to help this kid trying to figure out whether to finish a BSME, a BSCE and/or become an architect.  Sheez.

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 4:10 pm

Attractive people attract attractive people.....

Sometimes it just has nothing to do with the career. If you're over weight, below average looking, old and bold don't expect to have a supermodel looking wife unless she's a gold digger. On the other hand, if you're a stud you wouldn't want to be with an ugly wife would you?

now of course some smart arse is going to come on here and say he is fat, ugly, old and bold and has a caring young pretty wife, and some kids.

observant
Feb 12, 13 4:23 pm

Attractive people attract attractive people.....

On the other hand, if you're a stud you wouldn't want to be with an ugly wife would you?

Generally speaking, I agree with you.  However, a "stud," as you say, who is in architecture school, or interning, and whose girlfriend finds out what he's making may not stick around.  Also, they may be too artsy or cultured for the more attractive women, who like more conventional guys.  Rarely have I seen a guy in architecture school, and a fairly large one, have an attractive (subjective) girlfriend from outside the college.  Within the college, where there were few, then yes.

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 4:45 pm

Funny you said that. When my wife now use to be my GF when we first met, she thought I was earning heaps, because she thinks architect are like lawyers and doctors. Then she slowly finds out and got more and more disappointed. But she found out through me because I had to tell her the truth about the profession. Fortunetely for me she hung around but still not impressed with "how much i'm making"

Jadzia
Feb 12, 13 4:50 pm

Evidently she likes guys who either look like a younger version of bearded James Brolin or look like they'd be on a fresco in the Sistine Chapel. 
Wouldn't that be bearded Josh Brolin? Could be worse. He's married to Diane Lane BTW.

Since you guys digressed anyway  ... I'd like to point out this ancient thread to you -  could be of help for one or two. ;-)

http://archinect.com/forum/thread/12031/are-architects-attractive/

observant
Feb 12, 13 4:58 pm

hys316

When I finished my M.Arch. and was an intern, I would go on dates in a fairly large metro area with some attractive women who had MBAs.  In terms of a reasonably conservative look and a background, we had that in common, since my undergraduate was from the department of business and economics.  However, being on the verge of becoming an architect, my less conventional nature became a "liability" - that is, periodic commenting about buildings, evaluating social issues, and making cultural observations.  Not only that, "proper" dating was expensive.  I learned that most of these women wound up marrying a "corporate type" with a MBA or an attorney who I'm sure speak another "language."  Water seeks its own level, on ALL levels, it seems.

observant
Feb 12, 13 5:00 pm

Jadzia:

James Brolin was once younger, too, and is Josh Brolin's dad.  He also periodically sported a beard.  He is married to Barbra Streisand.  Could be better. *wink*

gwharton
Feb 12, 13 5:04 pm

Wow. This conversation has sidetracked in an unpredictable way.

As it happens, though, architecture is peculiar as a profession because its social status level and financial reward level are highly divergent in most cases. Most architects may not be paid very much, but we have very high occupational prestige in comparison to most other professions. We consistently make it into the top 5 out of all professions whenever people are polled on the subject, handily beating out lawyers, CEOs, judges, engineers, scientists, and a bunch of others...but not doctors or firemen). We've got style and status, and that's worth more than you might think. It's no accident that female-targeted fiction often has an architect as love interest, whether they portray the reality of being an architect accurately or not (unfortunately for them, female architects don't get the same benefit in the mate market, since men are attracted to women for other reasons than social status).

observant
Feb 12, 13 5:09 pm

Jadzia:

Hilarious link.  Thank you.

When in a-school I made damn sure to have friends in OTHER academic units, for my sanity.  I was talking to this student who was in one of the liberal arts, preparing for graduate study, who was rooming with a fellow architecture graduate student.  We were talking about the stereotypes or vibes various factions of the university gave off.  I said "So, how are architects stereotyped?"  She is INCREDIBLY smart and witty.  She said "Good-looking gay men.  Their faces are architecture."  She made this sweeping gesture around her face with her hands as she said that.  I then went to studio/classes the next day.  I couldn't help but notice that a lot of the guys had a soap operatic look, complete with the tousled hair, that one sees at the check-out stand at the market.  Or some of the them looked like they modeled underwear in the department store ads.  A lot of the others sort of looked alternative, in one way or another.  There were very few regular guys who could pass for students in ANY department in the university.   Bottom line:  a lot of the women there may have found the soap opera/model look attractive, but they didn't seem to want to date them.

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 7:23 pm

Interesting ancient thread Jadzia, good to know that people still stereotype architects.

Observant, something tells me that a girl left you at some stage and went to a corporate type guy with an MBA badge on his chest?

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 7:28 pm

gwharton,

I think architects have big egos, and for some they rather the title "architect" than getting fair pay compared to those top 5 professions you just listed. Some actually want both.

observant
Feb 12, 13 7:39 pm

Observant, something tells me that a girl left you at some stage and went to a corporate type guy with an MBA badge on his chest?

Not really, one can tell when a date is not going well or lacking in rapport, and there's no point in another one.  That said, that's what my undergrad was in, so I understand the landscape well.  That's why I also chose not to make it my occupation.  While people may slam it, particularly as it relates to a-school, that education makes for a great multifaceted calibration of both sides of the brain - working through things quantitatively and having to address issues qualitatively.  Not only that, a person can further round themselves out by traveling and simply by having an interest in art, design, and drawing, from when they were young. But, as far as multifaceted people in that field, not so much.  Actually, the only big disappointment I got was from an elementary school teacher.  But, since you and I are not coffee friends, that's beyond the scope of the thread. :-)

Dang, the OP must think we're real nutjobs by now, and is thinking "Screw it, I'm going to stick to engineering." Hmm.

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 7:46 pm

But, since you and I are not coffee friends, that's beyond the scope of the thread. :-)

Point taken.
 

jimbodnini
Feb 12, 13 9:16 pm

Law of nature baby. If you want a hot girl, you're after her mainly because of her looks (and of course, you should "love her personality too"). Therefore she has the right to go after you for your money/status and "personality." No money? No hot girl. You don't expect to buy a ferrari with an empty wallet. 

Of course, the type of girl I'm talking about are the materialistic bitches and gold diggers (almost all hot girls belong here). I regard these girls as a commodity. If I see a rich old guy with lots of hot mistresses, I say, good for you. You work hard, earned wealth, therefore you deserve it. But I know that just because you can't afford a ferrari doesn't mean the ferrari itself is worth more than you do. The gold digger will always be a commodity, something that can be bought. Unhuman. 

Then there are those self-made women who decide to earn their money by the sweat of their own brow, gain status through their own merit. These are pious hard working, unselfish women who obviously will care a lot less about how much you make (though you still have to make a descent living in order to support the family). These women are not commodities. It doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, neither has a huge advantage over the other. I regard these women as human beings, and I treat them as equals. I have empathy for them, regard them as sisters (or potential gf haha). 

Of course, I'm not being sexist. Don't get me wrong, I'm a feminist. However in this society no matter what your gender, people look down upon those who are too lazy to do their own work, who makes leeching off someone else's hard-earned money as the goal of their life. Regardless of whether you are a man or a woman.

So yea, I don't care about not being able to get hot girls. Those that choose not to date my just because of my salary are commodities. You'd never want to marry a commodity in the first place anyway. They are merely luxuries and playthings for you if and when you become rich and powerful. I want a real woman. 

Snoopy316
Feb 12, 13 9:41 pm

Yes that's right, 'most' hot girls are gold diggers, but even 'some' the not so hot girls are too, afterall who don't want money and a luxury life right? the only reason why "some" not so hot girl or below average girls aren't gold diggers in my opinion is because they know they don't have the features and can not compete with the super hot girls. Therefore their goals changes. it's just human nature, if a man know he can never be crown king he will say "I never want to be king anyway i rather live simple life" it feels better for a person to say they never wanted it than they want it bad but failed to achieve it. ok now that I said that, i might get bashed by all the commodity girls... and guys. but it's just an opinion.
 

observant
Feb 12, 13 9:52 pm

Jimmy, here's the deal.  It looks like you're willing to move this thread over a bit, after getting some answers, and have some fun with this.  I'm not going to be PC.  Experts do lots of profiling on majors, career progression, personality types, etc. 

What do the more popular women on an American college campus pick as majors?  Marketing, education, and a social science like psychology.  What do the less popular women on an American college campus pick as majors?  Anthropology, ecology, women's studies, and the more difficult branches of engineering.  What do the more popular men on an American college campus pick as majors? Finance, economics, poli sci (law school bound), and biology/chemistry (they'll overlook the nerdy factor if they have to).  What do the less popular men on an American college campus pick as majors?  Music, art, education, computer science, and physics.

I wholeheartedly believe that picking a major or a career because of earnings or what circle of people someone could frequent, including finding a spouse, will not work in the long-term.  However, we certainly see these patterns on college campuses, and then researchers in the social sciences validate them for us, through studies funded by tuition, taxpayer dollars, think tanks, and/or private grants.

jimbodnini
Feb 12, 13 9:59 pm

@hys316 hey a guy can dream right? xD I'm sure there are girls who are both descent looking and have the drive and ambition to stand on their own two feet... :'(

@observant what do you mean by more popular? Because I'm pretty sure men/women in arts are generally more outgoing and extroverted than those in law and engineering. Ofc picking a faculty only for money and power has advantages and disadvantages...for me personally at least, money does not attract me very much. But women do. However the want of women can't justify me going into a profession I don't particularly enjoy for the rest of my life. To do something just to get women imo is a sign of weakness of the heart. 

observant
Feb 12, 13 10:03 pm

Jimmy:

Popular = appearance, wide circle of friends, je ne sais quoi, sought after on a romantic level, (earning capacity, for men only)

And didn't I say exactly what you're saying about picking a major or an occupation?

jimbodnini
Feb 12, 13 10:09 pm

Yea you're absolutely right.

Its just you made the scenario for an architect seem so depressing, and now feel like sh*t xD I'm young, I want hot babes. 

I've decided I'm going to take an internship for mechanical engineering in the summer, while taking architectural courses and do more research. If I like it, then I'm going to transfer to civil engineering next year and take up lots of architectural electives. Sounds good?

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