i think the fact that you have to add "keep it glean guys" is answer enough.

I have actually noticed that women bosses/professors are much harder on women employees/students than they are on the men or than men are on the women.

I think it is because you have to work a little harder or you will be overlooked. At least that is what I think that is the reaasoning behind our female professors who are pretty tough. Most of them also came out of programs where women were probably treated worse than anything that is going on now. It is definitely still an issue in our school. Even though there are a majority women in a program, somehow 90% of the awards go to guys.

I grew up as the only half hispanic kid (aside from my brothers) in an all irish neighborhood. So, before I was aware of discrimination against women, my parents made it clear to me that I had to push myself to be my best at all times, as a method of combatting stereotypes.

Thanks to my upbringing, pushing myself is old hat now. I think if all women approach it this way, then, in a generation or so, the dinosaurs will have died off, and this whole discussion will be moot.

Hmm, I would say that I've noticed more of the inverse, or reverse discrimination against white males.

In college I think that the women got more attention from the professors in crits. Some professors basically went so far as to design the project for the female students, in a crit based way of course. Others just would spend more time helping them with their designs. When it came time to pass out grades it always appeared as if the women who had weaker designs and presentation seemed to not be punished nearly as much as men with equal effort projects.

I've noticed not quite the extreme in the professional world but have noticed that at all firms I've worked in that hiring & promoting women and minorities has been a high priority. I left one employer basically because all the opportunities were being given to new female hires while my senority destined me to nothing more than CAD monkey.

That's just my experience and I know there are old sexist/racist architects still out there. My complaint is that I would like everyone to be on equal grounds based on merit, and regardless of where I've gone it seems to be slanted one way or the other.

I've noticed discrimination against men more recently. For example, a well known firm in my city recently laid off a group of men and replaced them with women exclusively to "get in on" the Government Health Care Contracts. It's a fact, because I know the person doing the firing/hiring. They've also created bullshit Minority joint-venture partnerships to get simlar contracts requirng MBE/WBE conformity.
I'm finding out that alot of the Architecture industry as we know it is 5% Architecture and 95% political bullshit. A good architect can be regardless of gender or complexion....when you start fudging numbers to appear more diverse than the industry demographic, well then, you've destroyed your credibility as a firm. They know who they are, and have lost connection with the art long ago.

I believe this current generation of students is very far removed from sexism and racism.

The good students in my program don't have any physically distinguishing qualities or similarities. I couldn't possibly say that one particluar gender or race has any advantage over another.

I am happy to say I think this gender issue is totally moot.

I think unless you a white male ages 35-45 you are bound to have it hard. There are stereotypes in all societies which we constantly attempt to navigate. When I served as a juror to the summer hold students at MIT, most kinda looked at me for a bit....unsure. Unsure looking back if it were race, representation (being a Jamaican), or my youth I was only 23 at the time.

One of the big things i've attempted to do (probably without success) is to have work(s) without representation. It is by my works they shall judge me. As an attempt to do the contrary - if needed. I don't think anyone looks at hadid's, miller's, or tsien work and say ahh that's a woman's work, or culturally that is someone operating from a judiac standpoint.

my opinion, it is not equal, the only way it will ever be equal is when a person has the opportunity to be ordinary/average and no one will talk about it. right now the super talented stand out and people complain about people getting opportunities because they are of a gender or race. for the most part the people I see complained about, they have white male conterparts who are sitting next to them that are less talented but nobody pays attention because it is just one of many. I also believe that women/people of color have to be a lot more talented to get a seat at the table of the best quality projects.

I don't feel discrimitated against at all. If anything, I've found that being a woman in this profession has it's advantages. Especially with contractors. When I go to a job site I am treated very differently than men are treated. They respond to me without all the "alpha-dogging" they use with each other, they're nicer, more reasonable. I usually get what I need without much of a fight and I think it's because I'm a woman and they feel they have less to prove. Chivalry is very much alive, and of course there's the flirting. You can't deny that exists. I've learned to use it to develop good working relationships. I've worked with women who become very defensive and angry when a contractor flirts with them or even opens doors for them and it serves no purpose. It makes the guys feel alienated and resentful, or so they tell me. Why get mad about it? Use it to your advantage.

When I was a young intern I was able to use the "poor helpless female who doesn't know anything" act with permit reviewers to get clearer code interpretations and breaks on bad interpretations. I didn't feel too bad about it because I got what I needed to get a job out the door. Women can (and do, and should) use their femininity in this profession in ways that men can't.

I do remember it being different 15 years ago. There really was discrimination then. I also think it has to do with the region you're in. A small town attitude may not be as accepting as a metropolitan area.

I know this is all terribly un-PC but it's reality. Women can still be professional and feminine at the same time. The trick is to really know what you're talking about and know your job and do it well. Now, THAT'S the hard part.

last week i had my first experience on the jobsite with the female partner of my firm.
there was no flirting. there was no chivalry.
she was well respected, even though the forman did pull out the man card a couple of times in regards to questions about the game rooms.
i think that it seems like women are viewed as two dirrerent species in this profession.
those who are trying to prove that they are completely equal.
and
those who use their sex as a means of doing things differently.
(these attitudes can be applied to two branches of feminism as well).
i understand that things are changing now, and i understand that we have come a long way, and i do not doubt that there may be reverse discrimination right now, but i really dont see it lasting that way forever. i think the fact that things are getting better, and that a lot of frustrations tend to come from more "old school" mentality give me a fair amount of optomism that women will be equal in this profession, at some point in my lifetime.
maybe i am taking the wrong approach, but i really dont want to have to flirt with people, and i dont want to act like i dont know anything, i dont want to be thought of as an employee who will be leaving at some point to go raise kids, but i dont want to deny the fact that i am a woman either. i dont feel like i have to prove that i am different, and i really dont want to be treated differently. i dont think that gender is a moot point yet. but i do think that the only way it does become one will for it not to be an issue.

I'm not an architect, just an interiors student, but I've done a few freelance jobs as an interior designer, and I'm designing a home for a friend... just laying the backdrop for my experience on job sites.

I would say that the biggest issue I've had on sites was caused by my age in conjuction with being female. I found that being flirty didn't buy me respect, it just made them think that flattery would increase my tolerance for sloppy work. Not the case. One contractor who was exasperated when, despite his compliments to my skirt, I called him on the lousy drywall job his guys were doing. He took a condescending tone with me and called me "YOUNG LADY." I reminded him of my name and explained that if he chose not to address me by it, he and his workers could leave. He apologized but he didn't think I was so pretty after that. Fine, couldn't give a crap, as long as he does his job well. I don't know how often guys have to deal with that. It's not really discrimination, because he had no power over me. But it is an indication of the discussion not being a moot one yet. But like I said... the dinosaurs will die off soon.

from above article:
"Women shop more frequently than men, yet most shopping centers are designed by men," she says. A female architect can point out things in the design stage that a man may not necessarily be aware of, she says.

that is like saying more monorities live in the ghetto, so they should have more of a presence in the profession. while it is a somewhat valid argument, it really frustrates me. there doesn't need to be a reason why things should be more equal. as there is no good reason for them being unequal.

My point was that the flirting is out there, whether you want it to be or not. And I think maybe flirting is too strong a word. I don't know what else to call it though. Men will make comments and try to treat women the way they think they ought to be treated. Not necessarily the way we would want to be treated but they're giving it their best shot. The men I'm talking about are in the 40 - 65 range, some of them started working as laborers in the 60's or 70's when women hadn't been on job sites much, they've had to get used to women in this profession and it's been a change for them. In my experience, and maybe being 41 has something to do with it, and my experience is an anomaly, but they're all pretty much nice, uneducated guys and having a female around to banter a little with makes the job a little more fun.

D. G. Girl - I certainly understand what you're saying about age - that's a whole other totally worthwhile discussion. I think my perspective is different because of my age, however, your story falls under the statement I made above about really knowing your job. That's how you get the respect and I think it's much more difficult for younger professionals to convince these types of people they have the knowledge to back up their directives. I guess the advantage of my age is that they assume I have some background to begin with.

I'm very disappointed when I hear stories of women getting mad at guys who open doors for them or make an occasional off-color comment. The fact is, when you're on a job site, you're in their territory. Things go much more smoothly when you play by their rules. And I am definitely not talking about stripping if they ask you to. I'm saying that if a guy offers to open a door, you walk through it, say thank you and continue explaining why they need to rip out one day's worth of drywall work. If a guy says you look very pretty today, you say with a smile, "thank you, how's that mechanical guy doing with the duct work". At the same time, ask about their families. Develop relationships with them and you have a better project. Granted, there are sometimes very inappropriate comments and actions. I have no problem putting someone in their place if they go too far but most of these guys don't. They're testing you and they have really boring jobs. If you put out a vibe that you are trying to be a man in this profession, it really turns them off and they become very threatened. They want respect as much as you do. It's a two way street. If they pay you a compliment and you bite their head off it makes them look bad. Especially if there are other guys around. If you accept the compliment gracefully and move on, they feel good, they look good to the other guys, you look good for being "part of the team" and everyone's happy. It's very childish but this is typically their level. The important thing is that you have the power, always, to keep the comments/compliments in an acceptable zone.

Well this got long so I'll finish with a story of how this can backfire. I've been working on a project that's been under construction for 3 years. The mechanical contractor started sending me flowers and faxes this year, anonymously, and with no encouragement on my part. At that's the concensus among "the team". I never acknowledged that I knew it was him. In what's hopefully a totally unrelated event, he's all but dropped off the job. Today one of the engineers said to me (he's a very funny guy), "You know this wouldn't have happened if you'd taken one for the team and gone out with him!"

but that request reflects favoritist discrimination :-)

Wow, you lucky... :-)

I've never worked in any predominantly-design workplace. And I've worked among mostly males. The few females there must (?) be tough hided and/or non-pc. Based on my minimal experience, I'd say I've had good conversations with them after months of working in the same office. I think these conversations were possible more because we weren't boss-employee, rather than because we were same or were different gender. After you get to know these women, they'd 'trust' you to chuck some 'sex' humor at them, as long as the humor was... somehow suited to them. I'd use my judgment.

In classes, student gender ratio avgs is about 1:1 m:f. I've never noticed male instructors showing preference toward either gender classmates.

One female shows high enthusiasm among all students
I recall a couple female classmates discussing their perception of this instructor's bias against females. I now can't recall the classmates' specific complaints, but at that time, I suspected they mistook the instructor's high enthusiasm to be that infamous 'catty competitiveness'.

Mum, your comments are interesting :-)

I have to assume that over the long term, you've been able to judge whether you've ever been smoothly alpha-dogged. If we're referring to the same raw money-grubbing interactions as 'alpha-dogging', I'd say that I've never witnessed a contractor who was at all smooth. I don't even understand how 'alpo-dogging can be very effective. :-)

Perhaps you have seen enough to understand why "intellectual geeks" despise 'chivalry'.


I didn't feel too bad about it because I got what I needed to get a job out the door. Women can (and do, and should) use their femininity in this profession in ways that men can't.

You must not a be a pacifist, since you refuse to give up your flirting advantage. :-)

Mum again,

And I think maybe flirting is too strong a word.

snip

but they're all pretty much nice, uneducated guys and having a female around to banter a little with makes the job a little more fun

Ok yes, this seems more 'normal' than outright 'flirting'.


And I am definitely not talking about stripping if they ask you to.



awww, then maybe i'll stop asking :-(


Well this got long so I'll finish with a story of how this can backfire. I've been working on a project that's been under construction for 3 years. The mechanical contractor started sending me flowers and faxes this year, anonymously, and with no encouragement on my part. At that's the concensus among "the team". I never acknowledged that I knew it was him. In what's hopefully a totally unrelated event, he's all but dropped off the job.

i dont see this as example of your methods backfiring. i see it as example where more was going on in his head, and what happened was (apparently) beyond the ususal working relationships you described (preceding, in same post).

Today one of the engineers said to me (he's a very funny guy), "You know this wouldn't have happened if you'd taken one for the team and gone out with him!"

you seem to be one of the tougher ones...

you're 41, huh? How do i fax fresh flowers to you? :-)

e909

There were a majority of women in my architecture program. Some classes started out mostly male, but through students dropping out ended up with more female students. The freshman classes (no drop outs) is 3:22 m:f. This may begin to pose a problem because of some small sexist things that accompany the ever annoying politics of architecture inside and outside of a school.

I think there is something going. Women have been graduating with architecture degrees for a long time, but there are not very many women that I have encountered in high positions within architecture firms. I am working at a pretty big firm now, and there are many women, but very very few in senior positions. I don't know what this means, but there is a definite descripency between what is going on in schools and what is going on in the practice.

I haven't had my gender pose major problems within school or at work. I feel that you do have to work harder to get noticed, but all the complaints/unfair treatments at my school mostly boil down to administration politics. Someone made a comment on this board recently that architecture is 5% design and 95$ politics. I think this very true for architecture schools, especially small programs like the one I am in.

I think Captain Kirk would beat Picard in a fight... oh wait, wrong internet discussion.

Wright tells a story in his autobiography (which, since it is in his autobiography, means it is a complete fabrication) that when he started at Sullivan's office, another draftsman was giving him endless grief about his long hair, so one night he clocked him with a t-square. Nice.

Wrong thread. Damn tabbed windows.

Yeah, but Picard is sexier.

E909. I think Stephanie was looking for an Archinect boyfriend. Are you offering to be my Archinect stalker? :)

lets talk some real numbers here....lets take a firm like SOM, big, great,...right?? good old boys. in the 65 year history, 150 or so partners....only 4 chicks ever!!! and even now 33 partners, 2 women. only 1 design partner ever. the other 2 managing and 1 planning /airports. and lets not even talk about minorities!! and the lower ranks of associate partner and associate are just as pitiful.

real money and real input in a place like skids is only at partner level. the partners feel no need to balance the scales there.

well i guess girlies cant do big projects in the eyes of nat skiidmore....

gensler seams better....hok...really bad track there 2 unless you are a an interior girly. so what else is new!

In my class at school, numbers were equal, and we always debated how many of us (women) woudl drop out of this profession in 10 years or less. i did not necessarily feel that i was treater rougher in a crit b/c i was a girl....but i definitely gained points (yes this was a bit shameless) by acting as the "secretary" for one of my studios...nothing terrible, but when my critic needed something, he woudl call me....reservations for crit space, directions on campus (he was new) etc. he didnt favor me, but I am sure my willingness to do some dirty work didnt hurt :)
i have definitely experienced discriminatin from some older engineers who dont think i understand what they are talking about, but i have learned to just ask really smart questions and then they usually take me seriously after a few meetings....
but there is always the marraige/family question. how many firms out there have good flextime policies for women having children? a few...but not that many....a firm has to be consistent - ifthey say they want to be open and hire women, they hav eto realize what hiring women might entail realistically, and respond to that. otherwise, its just hypocritical.

But Ted, look at the ages of the partners at the big firms, they're ususally in their 60's. There are few women of that age in the profession, that's just how it was. The large numbers of women in the profession is a new phenomenon.

not at skids there. in chi town there are 4 partners in there 40's[maybe one late 30's]. 4 others in early/mid 50's. 3 partners in sf in 40's. only one partner in chi town in his 60s and he is now retired [consulting]

only 2 associate partner that is a women in chi town[interiors]. i dont recall any female studio heads in chi town since the early/mid 80s. in london som, only 1 interiors associate in office. it goes beyond age. even interiors which in other practices promotes women, has 2 partners, both men.

in chi town, 3 of the existing partners met their future wives in the office. i think that has a lot more to do with it. 3 of the existing partners had affairs with current or now ex staff [while they were partners]

and it is somewhat the chicken before the egg. do the women leave because they see no advancement [with having a family]. do the men just ignore their families in places like that.

its a culture.

I noticed that architecture/interiors firms have women principals. They tend to be in the interior side.
Architecture only firms have only men as principals.
If there are women principals at an architecture firm is because they are married to the other architect partner.
Hmm...

I have to object to Margine's post - that is oversimplified. I have met women principals who arent married to the other partners...yes its rare but it does exist. And there are women who have their own firms! and a few of them are even successful.....

And I think it is changing, slowly. even with regard to men and their attitudes towards their families. once met these two architects in philly (have their own small firm) who said the firm closes at 6 every day and no weekends b/c they want to see their wives/kids and be part of their lives. these guys were maybe 40. i was impressed by their new attitude and thought maybe things are changing....

TED, thanks for the stats. The ‘culture’ you are describing is consistent with many corporate offices – architectural or otherwise – see the book Flux : Women on Sex, Work, Love, Kids, and Life in a Half-Changed World by Peggy Orenstein.

I am troubled not by the corporate offices, but by the large disappearance of women from the profession which happens between school and office. While there was a pretty equal balance of men and women in my undergrad and grad programs, but when I got into working in firms (small to medium size offices) we were definitely outnumbered – and the women, except for 1-2 were all my level – ie. junior.

In undergrad on the east coast some sexism existed – mostly dumb adolescent shit fueled by late-night studio culture or pervy aging professors. That said, of the top five students in my class, four were women. Grad school at SCI-Arc was definitely more about a meeting of creative equals, not gender. I can only hope that that kind of attitude will slowly spill over into the workforce. The women I know in the field kick ass on their own, they don’t need to define themselves by flirting or by taking on masculine attitudes.

i have a female friend of mine who was a architectural studio head at som in the mid 80s. she was pregnant with her 2nd child [never missed a beat] and was told by one of the 40ish partners who was a minorty, that she could be a studio head in interiors but considering her condition and that she was moving to the north shore, the firm thought she could no long 'take it like a man' and do buildings.

what was more bizaar is that the senior design partner in the office lived in this north shore community [and could still handle the pressure of being a partner] and that her brother in law was a partner in the firm at the same time. even nepitism could beat discrimination. and this is comming out of the mouth of a 40 y.o. partner....

needless to say, she decided that she wasnt going to make water run up hill, left the firm and opened her own practice.

Some numbers to run:

Undergraduate class at Michigan was 50/50.
Graduate class at Sciarc (of people that already had BS or BA in arch) was 6 women out of 30. Where did all of the women go?

I worked at a big corporate firm in downtown LA this summer. I would say that, in the lower levels, it was pretty evenly mixed. At the upper levels, it was definitely more men. There were some women, and they all shared this characteritic: NO CHILDREN. I'm suprised no one has brought this up. Having children (as a women) seems to be the number one way to kill a career.

Personally, as a women, this freaks me out. I do actually want to have children at some point in my life. But will I be seen as not committed to my work? One woman in the office was trying to get pregnant, but at age 40 or older, she wasn't having any luck. Is that what women have to do? Devote their youth to their career and pin their hopes on the chance that their bodies will still work at an advanced age? Meanwhile, all kinds of younger guys had kids - they just had wives who were willing to put their careers on hold.

No thanks! I didn't just spend 60k and 2.5 yrs on a masters degree to go that route!

Any women out there have any positive experiences to share on this front?

i work for an extremely successful, small, woman run firm. we have two offices. she is in her 60's. on staff there are 2 female architects, 4 male architects, a male project/office manager and two interns (me and a dude in the other office) and we all get along really well. and it is really awesome work environment.
i wish that i would have such a good experience as i carry on in architecture, but i really doubt that will be the case. especially if i move on to larger geographic areas and companies. which seems really backwards for being in idaho.
i just felt like sharing, i dont know why.

about kids:
the woman i work for doesn't have them. (and she has been divorced twice.)
personally i dont want to have kids. mostly for career reasons.
and it is scary! i feel for women in architecture who do have/want children, because i have absolutely no idea how it works.
there was a woman in my graduate class who gave birth THREE WEEKS before final reviews. and her project suffered for it. (personally, i think most of the unpleasant circumstances in her case were not due to the demands of architectural education, but i dont want to get into character flaws.)

I'm interested in seeing one documented case of discrimination of a woman in architecture - just curious. Please send me a link. Not just one's opinion of "how tough they've had it", but an actual case, please.
Thanks in advance!

in illinois we have a 'employment at will' situation and an employer has the right to terminate an employee for any reason, doesnt have to state why.

the litmus test for what you ask is at such a high standard 'document...link.....etc' clearly, you must not believe it exist.

the statements i made about som above are true, the numbers speak for themself.

over the last year, i personally had a very specific conversation with one of the 4 most senior prinicpals at hok st louis about the lack of senior women in architectural positions throughout the firm. he was very candid and stated it was a big problem that they as a firm recognized and were consciously trying to focus on a more balanced firm. i believed he was extremely sincere at this statement. the som partners deny it exist.

some of the big firms really do abuse there staffs personal time and its very smart of women to leave these enviroments. i feel terrible for the men who stay and their families they leave behind.....

Where I'm at currently we have a project architect who has had two children in the past 3 years. Management has worked very well with her since she is such a valuable member of our team here. Ever since the first kid she has only worked 3 day weeks and is still doing that. The teams she works with always have the more talented people on them because she is only here limited amount of time. I know that her personal goals are to eventually advance to partner and I dont' see why she couldn't. She is only in her mid-30's currently and when the children are in their teens I could see her being devoted again to her career enough to take on that kind of responsibility. Granted, men don't have to slow down as much for child rearing but I don't think children automatically mean women cannot advance.

this is not an effort to change the topic..but to add a further inquisitive dimension (besides that of 'discrimination'). I think many people's (read..men's) perception of zaha is in parallel with the that of a Whore. Her ferocious appetite (architectural and otherwise), her flamboyance (physical and otherwise), the grandeur of her flesh that she reveals (rather than hides) through her choice of drapery...the surplus of the 'exotic'..ugliness and beauty colliding in this vessel of flesh...a Cindy Crawford (the beauty mark) who has feasted like a roman and attended many orgies...For those men, she is a clash between the pathetic (the whore who can only be absolved through washing her masters' feet with her own hair) and the steel vagina that can masticate their little kootchi kootchie white cocks. She is Woman magnfied by the number of her curvatures and folds...the str8 man fears her and the gay man loves her...she is the ultimate fag hag. Her architecture, to them, is very feminine..not the soft passive revieving flesh of the feminine..its is the muscular grinds, the spastic flesh (hence the sharpness, the angularity, the schizophrenia of her lines) , the 'whimsical woman' who can intelligently and deliberately dissolve her partner (the architecture circles?) in one single shopping spree...she puts the cliché on its head and decieves it with a blowjob.
She invites unaware anti-Woman responses to surface in the guise of architectural criticism. Zaha as a pair of 'feminist' spectacles through which to see the architectural comminuty.

i haven't noticed any race/sex discrimination... but AGE discrimination seems to be prominent!
I've noticed that people my same age who look older than me have an advantage. and also people who are older but have much less actual years of experience still seem to get more credit.
Also architects who are older in their 40s-50s with less experience 2-3yrs and are not liscenced still get introduced to clients as architects ... whereas people who apear younger are introduced as interns..even if they are almost liscenced and have 5-6 years experience!
Also, as an asian woman, I do not feel that my appearance reflects my actual age. I just started a new job and I'm close to 30... but I'm constantly asked which college did i just graduate?! people treat me like I'm 24! nice for fashion ..but not for your career it seems!

uneDITed: i am just wondering how you think zaha helps/harms the image of women in architecture?
i understand that you are stating a common view of her, and i don't follow her well enough to fully understand your statements, but they seem awfully harsh.

"I think many people's (read..men's)"

hmm...maybe not just. I've been contemplating 'manhood' for some time now...the bittersweetness of strawberry boyhood - the dicked equivalent to the Virgin Suicides motif...yes,like the death of Macauly Kulkin in My Girl. Witness the irony...he gets stung to death by bees...and bees in this suburban blonde comminuty is typically the childish myth of birth...."the birds and the bees" (the secret vessel...the flower...the daffodil vulva is the unmentioned partner-in-crime...flowers can be dangerous). And notice too...the woman-child had a symbolic role (in the form of a ring closure...very potent symbolically) in the death of the man-child. It is a film where Hades, Perspephone, Orpheus, Euridice, Adonis and Ishtar all are in disguise in suburban americana...with aryan highlights (Adonis, like Europa, like Io are all from Phoenician extract) and switching gender roles.

stephanie..I am not supporting the view or criticizing it (how can u criticize an archetype-a Whore can be a good thing and a bad thing like any other archetype) ...just sort of meandering within it for its sake.

I often have the same reaction to Zaha's work as I do to Gehry's work...does that mean that Gehry has a titanium vagina?

Seriously though, Zaha's demeanor of pampered royalty, as compared to Gehry's more passive persona (at least as I've seen it publicly), doesn't make her architecture more or less likeable to me than his work.

uneDITed

looks like you have too much time on your hands/extremely bored

go get a life will you

I have a feeling that what uneDITed writes just spews from their fingers as fast as they can type.

her architecture is, in this topic, only nominal...a consequence of her. Do not drag it , again, to architecture (whether you like ot or not..and then a plethora of arguments as to whether her architecture is 'good' or 'over-rated')- I'm trying to view her as a sort of catalyst within her her environment (architects and others associated) , away from tiresom mantra-like mind-numbing arguments about whether any one 'likes' her architecture.

I personally do not care for your or mine or anyone's idiosynchratic (some people would say 'subjective') reactions towards her architecture in this instant. Thats not the topic..this is another topic.

And you see..u do revert to the mythology of Zaha (wittingly or unwittingly) with "Zaha's demeanor of pampered royalty, as compared to Gehry's more passive persona"

Oh, I'm sorry. By all means forgive me, as I thought we were writing in an architecture forum.

I do believe you were talking about architectural criticism of her work as a sublimation of other non-architectural, explicitly woman-hating emotions. You implied that any criticism of her architecture is tantamount to chauvanism. So I noted that I have the same criticism of her work as I have of Gehry's work, so by that logic, is my reaction to Gehry's architecture because his work is inherently "feminist" in nature and expression?

Gehry's work could be feminist. You don't have to be a female to create feminist works. (by my definition)

feminist, feminine or effeminate?