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so, i effed up on a door swing into a utility room and it conflicts with the flow. the owner thinks it's awkward. i asked two millworkers on the job and they didn't really feel it was that awkward. regardless, the owner feels i should pay to change out the door...$375. if pressed i think i will flip the hinges and rebuild the jamb myself...what a pain!
anyone know what the architect's liability is on a "design flaw"? thanks!
why should it be your responsibility if the owner suddenly think that the door swing is awkward? did he not review the construction document and/or have meetings with you to discuss?
If you guys did discuss and the door is different from what was discussed before, then it's your liability. Own up and pay the money.
If you did do what was discussed, then it's not your fault. Simple as that.
while I agree with the above statement, I would pay the 375. That client will not ever refer you if they are unhappy. Happy client = possible referals and more money. Consider it an advertising expense. Sucks but think about your own personal experiances as a consumer. I been going to the same shitty barber and getting the same lousy haircut for 20 years because every once and a while he says (in broken english) no charge today buddy. It is not always good practice to go beyond your obligations, but it is sometimes good business. Client loyalty is priceless.
Sunchew is right. Plans are a product of you and the investor. Relationship between him and you should end there.
Design is never perfect and never optimal. You can get into philosophy of that.
There are so many spoiled owners/consumers out there. Architects used to work with general sketches and ideas and were like an authority on site. Now I would need to make renders and feasibility studies for a fck. shed and still "not quite happy with a colour scheme".
sunchew and jla-x are BOTH right, of course. your legal liability may be zero (unless you did something other that what you were directed), but there may be other things you need to consider.
this is the kind of decision you have to make while wearing your business hat.
Limits on liability are often addressed in the contract...
crave: so, i effed up on a door swing
if you say you "effed" it up, you should pay for it.
if you're already in bad standing with the client, screw paying for it in hopes of getting more work in the future... Unless, you really know he's got big connections and can help you find more job, forget it. xP
I agree with those before me (except accesskb immediately above me... that's kind of sad. Morality based on utilitarianism? No thanks.) If it's truly your fault, do the right thing and pay for it. - Regardless of "legal liability". If it's clearly what's right vs. what's wrong, then you need to do the right thing and don't try to get out of it by "legal liability" questions.
If however it wasn't really your fault - as in, you did the door swing per normal practice; nobody said anything about it on the drawings but on the other hand it's not like you specifically said "are you ok with this door swing?" and he said "yes"; it's reasonable that the thing could have simply been overlooked in the drawings; he moved in and then decided it annoyed him; something else in the plan changed which then rendered the door swing annoying; any number of grey areas. If it's one of these, then you need to use your best business guidance. Is this client acting in good faith? Has he been an otherwise good client to work with? Or is this #285 in meaningless complaints he's made? Is HE just out to squeeze as much money out of you as possible (constantly asking for free work, questioning your invoicing, etc.)? Is this the kind of thing that if you agree to pay for this one thing, but because it's not perfectly clear that it's your fault, now he's going to ask you to pay for every little thing on the job site? I've had a client before that we eventually had to part ways with because he literally thought we should be giving him freebies on every tiny item - things that weren't mistakes or changes of any kind, just things he agreed to and then later decided to back out of. If this client is one of those, then you need to stand your ground, because it could become a downward spiral into you paying for his house.
i asked two millworkers on the job and they didn't really feel it was that awkward.
This is completely irrelevant. The only thing that matters is what your client thinks. Is the millworker paying a ton of money for you to craft something for him to live his life in forever? No. So he doesn't get a say. Don't torment your own feelings by getting other opinions. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, just what your client thinks - and whether you truly made a mistake or not.
I guess this is a good lesson to learn on a $375 door; although I think it your choice whether or not to pay for the reasons stated above. If the owner signed-off on the CD's they got what they paid for.
One caveat; if the door in question is in violation of your local building code then the error could be legally tied back to you as a design professional; in this case, it would be be in your best interest to pay for the fix.
chigurh nailed it here folks. he knows the contracts.
for those who need to learn what it is to be a real architect listen to these lectures:
thank me later
crave - the one thing no one's pointed out yet: what are you going to say when the client brings up the next 'situation' on the project that he 'doesn't like'? say, a window that doesn't go exactly where he'd thought it should? are you going to pay for that?
it's a very, very slippery slope, both contractually and practically, once you start saying you'll pick up the tab for any 'mistakes'. the owner, naturally, doesn't want to but this really is why you carry a contingency on projects. to accommodate both inherent mistakes (of the real kind) as well as 'i changed my mind' kinds of issues...
is it a code issue? no? just awkward? fuck that shit. going into a zaha building is an awkward experience. fuck. that.
ya, i'm starting to think along i r's line. you just need to post-rationalize your design concept and explain to the client that the engaging interaction of the door swing into a utility room is an integral part of the building concept as a whole. to reconsider this fundamental element of the design will throw off the entire experience of the dwelling.
If you are using BIM (Building Information Modeling) Technology which use superior software like Revit & Tekla for clash detection and project co-ordination then you can very much avoid design flaws and errors early in the development phase. Not sure if you have abide by such terms.
The client is most likely wrong, I get that, but sometimes you have to give a little to keep good relations. Also, it is your work. Do you want bad work out there, or do you want to make sure that everything you do is perfect? Everyone that enters that persons home will see it. That client will complain to every last friend and family member that visits the home. It's only 375$. If it was 30,000$ that would be another story, but for 375$ It's worth it.
The notion that "the customer is always right" is not universal, but often helpful.
If you're standing on principle, you may save $375 but lose potential positive referrals to future clients. Like everything else, a trade-off is involved, whichever you choose.
yeah - go above and beyond to make your client happy - and have them pay for it.
Dont get shitty haricuts for 20 years.
how many months of shitty haircuts = 400 bucks?
did you like effe up or like FUCK up?
I would say something like this, "Usually the architect isn't liable for such things but I see that it is important to you, and I enjoyed working with you on this project. I want you to be happy with my work, so, yes, let's get it fixed!"
and then the client says "i would think an architect should know how a door swings. speaking of, we need you to buy some new light fixtures in the powder room too, because the $75 incandescent lights you had installed and we payed for are not the $500 fixtures we expected."
or they just say "thank you." hard to tell.
curt, then the relationship is probably lost and you can't be expecting any referrals from someone so unrealistic and selfish anyways. I would be polite but avoidant and conveniently forget about all of it after that point and stall on the door swing too. Hard to say without knowing all the sublteties. Did I spell that right? Subtleties?
Is this a mill-worker you give a lot of business to? Can you ask him for a favor, split the cost with him, or promise him future work?
Still not understanding what kind of "flow" is being messed up in a utility room.