I have a 12 month gap 09' to 10' - even now, I get the third degree on it - it's like a felony - one firm even subtracted it from my experience to determine my pay rate - 2 years exp. - 1 year of unemployment = 1 year exp.
BTW - freelance does not count either - with so many people competing for jobs, only those with continuous employment track records in known offices make it. It's unfair - but that's the way it is folks - Don't even waste your time trying to use freelance to mask a gap - believe me it does not work.
also - you work for JKA + associates "how come I never heard of them?" NEXT
Xenakis is dead on...the worst part of being unemployed is that the time you lose will ultimately start eating away at the time you've spent working in the profession. It's an unfair practice, yet many firms have adopted the strategy to low-ball desperate job-seekers.
However, there are two ways for "freelancing" to pay off...network your way into a position. The hiring manager is less likely to discount your experience when someone vouches for you..they won't care what you've actually been doing. The other, do something absolutely amazing with your time out of work...
with all that said, I don't think it'll matter so much if your portfolio is kickass and show you'll be a good contribution to the firm.
correct me if i'm wrong.. I just started looking for a job and not to comfortable that I've been out of work and doing my own thing the past year since completing undergrad.
Are firms more likely to hire you or brush you off knowing you'll be with them for a year or two before heading off to grad school?
Um... just don't tell them that you're going to grad school lol. If you're applying right now you won't know if you get in till Spring anyway.
Another question:
Is it better to have a gap or a non-architecture job in your resume? I was thinking of cleaning up my resume and removing non-architecture related jobs. But then I'm gonna have a gaps. Should I leave the non-architecture job just to show that I've been steadily employed?
So if you have not had an architecture job since the beginning of the recession spring of 2008 50 months give or take a few should you throw in the towel, get another degree or strike everything off your resume and start as an entry level employee and take the graduation dates off your resume and portfolio?
Are you not employable if you have a 4 year absence from full time office employment?
Sorry to sound pessimistic but I have read into some strategies to deal with resume gaps and I am looking for some reasonable ways to mitigate what is a negative on my resume and is holding me back in some instances.
First gaps longer than 6 moths are the ones that need to be explained. I don’t think you need to mention that you worked odd seasonal minimum wage jobs since the last time you were in an office full time, but what do you do to keep the potential employers mind focused on your skills and experience rather than a hole in your relevant work history. This problem vexes me and perhaps a bunch of others as well so after reading in the ladders and discussion boards on linked in I notice a few strategies.
Let me know what you think.
1. List your work experience like your portfolio strongest first weakest last or in the middle.
2. Use years and months not dates. 1 year six months specification writer for small and little architecture firm
3. round everything up to years 2006-2007 instead of October 2006-July 2007
4. List volunteer activities in your work history especially if you volunteered while unemployed be careful not to list political campaigns or places that might be disagreeable such as Planned Parenthood, Obama or Romney Campaigns.
5. Have a brief not too detailed explanation: I went back for retraining, had a kid, or cared for sick relative. How many folks may have National Guard deployments for example? Make sure that it is brief and that the issue is resolved and not a future problem. This is probably important for illness and National Guard, are you done, or can you get called up again. It is illegal to use National Guard against someone but I have seen it happen deployments can be devastating in a small office and you are legally obliged to hold that job for them when they return which can be 1-6 years. Hopefully this will become less of a problem as major US conflicts draw to a close.
They may see it as masking ones inability to get a full time job. But, if you've been an independent contractor for consistent clients, then you may as well list the clients in a fashion similar to an employer..
I have been a IC (1099) for 3 years now, and every-time I interview for a full time gig, I never make the cut anymore - a recruiter said I may have to settle for a "truncated career" I am lowering my sights and focusing on survival instead of becoming an architect - that's just not realistic anymore - there is way too much competition with people who were never laid off, let alone for 15 months as I was.
Lie if you have to! Times are tough and it ain't much if it means you'll get hired. Its not like employers will really grill you about your experiences and call up every reference. :P
And i think its better to have worked in another field, than have months of gaps without a job. Even McDonald's or bartending would look better than having no job, doing little and having little to explain about the gap. Atleast, a shitty job will let the employer know you're willing to take up any job to put food on the table than be a bum, sitting around for the 'perfect' architectural job to come to you.
If you lie they can use it to fire you when it is convenient for them and then you will have on unemployment, don't do it someone may use it against you and it is much easier to figure out than you think.
1) No. Just, no. It will make you look like you either make awful typos, or like you are genuinely stupid because you can't put a simple list in chronological order.
2) Transparent, makes it look like you're hiding something. If I saw this, I would expect the person coming in for an interview to be 70 years old and trying to hide huge gaps, so what people imagine will probably be worse than reality in this scenario.
3) This could actually help. Be prepared to be honest though, if someone does ask for more specifics, but many won't.
4) Only if it's relevant and/or very substantial. If it's something you did every other weekend, no. If it's the Peace Corps, yes.
5) I would list something as substantial as a National Guard or other military deployment, per advice in #4. Other than that, briefly mention in cover letter, not on resume.
As someone who manages the hiring process for our firm, my view on this quesion is rather simple. At the end of the day, we hire the people who convince us they're qualified and capable of doing the job. We "get" the economy and don't look down our noses at people who may have gaps in their resumes. Even before the recession, we'd see gaps all the time with candidates - most frequently with individuals who took some time off to have a child or deal with a family health situation. At the end of the day, what's important is whether the candidate was able to maintain, or even improve, his/her knowledge and skills during that gap period.
Look -- let's be realistic. No employer is going to pass over a clearly qualiflied candidate to hire someone who is less qualified. The challenge is not so much about explaining gaps as it is crafting a presentation (either in the form of a submittal package or via an interview) that tells the employer you can do the job. And, you can't just "assert" that you can do the job -- you have to be able to demonstrate in a credible manner that you can do the job.
I know this is tough, but many of you are where you are due to no fault of your own. You've got to look reality in the face and concentrate on what's really important when looking for a job. "Gaps" alone aren't important -- however, the back story is important, as is your ability to perform for the employer.
i would add to rationalists comment, don't bother trying to hide things. it probably won't work out very well if you are fudging and stretching the truth. it is usually pretty obvious.
the market is not easy now. lie-ing on resume to make it look like the down-turn has not affected you does not really make sense to me. it likely will not make sense to anyone in a position to hire new staff either.
as for other non-architecture related work on resume...it is up to you. sometimes it can be an interesting conversation starter or highlight unexpected skills. so far, on resumes we get we tend to ignore that stuff though, because it does not usually reflect on the ability of the person to do the work we need them to take on. it has never been a negative though.
If a firm is going to look down on you about something that was out of your control (like the recession), you probably don't want to work for that firm in the first place.
I once interviewed with a firm in Philly after I had already had 5 years of post-college experience and they were questioning why I hadn't done a summer internship between the summer of 2002 where there was the dot com recession - mind you that was 9 years eariler. I thanked them for their entertainment and went back down to DC where I accepted another position.
Similiar boat is Peter, as far gaps are concerned. Graduated in 2009, have done about 3 short term contract projecs for a couple of companies. However nothing long lasting and I haven't worked in an acutual arch office. Been a business analyst for almost 3 years and last interview I had the guy directly tell me being an analyst for so long looks bad on my resume. Well, duhhhhhhh, I know that. I wouldn't be a business analyst if a freaking firm would actually give me a chance (worst catch 22 everrrrr).
But I digress. Alas.......
Sep 20, 12 9:10 am ·
·
This from quizzical is really key:
"The challenge is not so much about explaining gaps as it is crafting a presentation (either in the form of a submittal package or via an interview) that tells the employer you can do the job."
In other words, you need to explain yourself in a compelling fashion. Architects tend to be poor storytellers. But it is skill that can be worked on. Seriously, next you're with a group of people try recounting an experience and see if it falls flat or if you can hold your audience. And keep practising until you can.
Also, in addition to telling the employer that "you can do the job," you also need to convince him that you want the job. Candidates often sabotage themselves because their interest in a given job is no more than a paycheck. But if your story is about something bigger than yourself and your interest in working with us is part of that story, well, then that can be quite compelling, it might even make me want to work with you. Now that's a candidate that is difficult not to hire, putting the ball squarely in my court. Of course in a competitive market like this there may well be others like you but at this point you've done that best you can (and you might be one of the first people I think of next time around).
Lastly, if you are ever rejected because of a "resume gap" it may just be a smokescreen. Assuming that you are otherwise qualified, it's an easy polite way of dismissing you when the real problem could be a difficult intangible (style, attitude, body odor, even gender or race, etc)
At the end of the day, what's important is whether the candidate was able to maintain, or even improve, his/her knowledge and skills during that gap period.
I agree 100%. I know that even though I have a 1.5 year gap and had to do small freelance work and non arch work to get by, I needed to keep doing architecture on my own time because I love it and I dont want to get behind. I am working on several house concepts, did a couple competitions, and even considering putting a set of CD's together just to demonstrate that I taught myself how to and compensated for my inability to get formal experiance. Anyway, I am putting together a post-graduate portfolio titled "underemployed post-graduate portfolio" to make light of the issue, and claim power over my situation as a positive period of learing and refining my craft. I can't imagine that anyone would see this as a negative thing.
It's all about taking control of your situation and showing initiative. You know the saying "when life gives you lemons" maybe that would be a better title for the portfolio....
Sep 20, 12 11:57 am ·
·
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Gaps and filler on your resume
I am curious about how the folks who chose who to hire or at least invite people for an interview view gaps in employment. I want to know a few things
1 How long of a gap is too long?
2 Is freelance work viewed as a negative or an asset?
3 How many folks use a freelance position to mask a huge gap, and how easy is it to figure this out?
very good questions in general, I have a freelance position on my resume as well. what do you mean by using a freelance position to mask a gap?
I have a 12 month gap 09' to 10' - even now, I get the third degree on it - it's like a felony - one firm even subtracted it from my experience to determine my pay rate - 2 years exp. - 1 year of unemployment = 1 year exp.
BTW - freelance does not count either - with so many people competing for jobs, only those with continuous employment track records in known offices make it. It's unfair - but that's the way it is folks - Don't even waste your time trying to use freelance to mask a gap - believe me it does not work.
also - you work for JKA + associates "how come I never heard of them?" NEXT
Just be honest?
Xenakis is dead on...the worst part of being unemployed is that the time you lose will ultimately start eating away at the time you've spent working in the profession. It's an unfair practice, yet many firms have adopted the strategy to low-ball desperate job-seekers.
However, there are two ways for "freelancing" to pay off...network your way into a position. The hiring manager is less likely to discount your experience when someone vouches for you..they won't care what you've actually been doing. The other, do something absolutely amazing with your time out of work...
with all that said, I don't think it'll matter so much if your portfolio is kickass and show you'll be a good contribution to the firm.
correct me if i'm wrong.. I just started looking for a job and not to comfortable that I've been out of work and doing my own thing the past year since completing undergrad.
Are firms more likely to hire you or brush you off knowing you'll be with them for a year or two before heading off to grad school?
Um... just don't tell them that you're going to grad school lol. If you're applying right now you won't know if you get in till Spring anyway.
Another question:
Is it better to have a gap or a non-architecture job in your resume? I was thinking of cleaning up my resume and removing non-architecture related jobs. But then I'm gonna have a gaps. Should I leave the non-architecture job just to show that I've been steadily employed?
So if you have not had an architecture job since the beginning of the recession spring of 2008 50 months give or take a few should you throw in the towel, get another degree or strike everything off your resume and start as an entry level employee and take the graduation dates off your resume and portfolio?
Are you not employable if you have a 4 year absence from full time office employment?
Dang homie, take a chill pill lol. All it means is that you'll have a harder time finding a job, but by no means are you "not employable."
1. Skills in other fields do transfer over to the architecture field
2. Go join Habitat for Humanity and Architecture for Humanity. Those organizations are great ways to beef up your portfolio and resume.
Sorry to sound pessimistic but I have read into some strategies to deal with resume gaps and I am looking for some reasonable ways to mitigate what is a negative on my resume and is holding me back in some instances.
First gaps longer than 6 moths are the ones that need to be explained. I don’t think you need to mention that you worked odd seasonal minimum wage jobs since the last time you were in an office full time, but what do you do to keep the potential employers mind focused on your skills and experience rather than a hole in your relevant work history. This problem vexes me and perhaps a bunch of others as well so after reading in the ladders and discussion boards on linked in I notice a few strategies.
Let me know what you think.
1. List your work experience like your portfolio strongest first weakest last or in the middle.
2. Use years and months not dates. 1 year six months specification writer for small and little architecture firm
3. round everything up to years 2006-2007 instead of October 2006-July 2007
4. List volunteer activities in your work history especially if you volunteered while unemployed be careful not to list political campaigns or places that might be disagreeable such as Planned Parenthood, Obama or Romney Campaigns.
5. Have a brief not too detailed explanation: I went back for retraining, had a kid, or cared for sick relative. How many folks may have National Guard deployments for example? Make sure that it is brief and that the issue is resolved and not a future problem. This is probably important for illness and National Guard, are you done, or can you get called up again. It is illegal to use National Guard against someone but I have seen it happen deployments can be devastating in a small office and you are legally obliged to hold that job for them when they return which can be 1-6 years. Hopefully this will become less of a problem as major US conflicts draw to a close.
do employers not count independent contract work as "real?"
If true I'm screwed
They may see it as masking ones inability to get a full time job. But, if you've been an independent contractor for consistent clients, then you may as well list the clients in a fashion similar to an employer..
I have been a IC (1099) for 3 years now, and every-time I interview for a full time gig, I never make the cut anymore - a recruiter said I may have to settle for a "truncated career" I am lowering my sights and focusing on survival instead of becoming an architect - that's just not realistic anymore - there is way too much competition with people who were never laid off, let alone for 15 months as I was.
Lie if you have to! Times are tough and it ain't much if it means you'll get hired. Its not like employers will really grill you about your experiences and call up every reference. :P
And i think its better to have worked in another field, than have months of gaps without a job. Even McDonald's or bartending would look better than having no job, doing little and having little to explain about the gap. Atleast, a shitty job will let the employer know you're willing to take up any job to put food on the table than be a bum, sitting around for the 'perfect' architectural job to come to you.
If you lie they can use it to fire you when it is convenient for them and then you will have on unemployment, don't do it someone may use it against you and it is much easier to figure out than you think.
Peter, responses to your solutions:
1) No. Just, no. It will make you look like you either make awful typos, or like you are genuinely stupid because you can't put a simple list in chronological order.
2) Transparent, makes it look like you're hiding something. If I saw this, I would expect the person coming in for an interview to be 70 years old and trying to hide huge gaps, so what people imagine will probably be worse than reality in this scenario.
3) This could actually help. Be prepared to be honest though, if someone does ask for more specifics, but many won't.
4) Only if it's relevant and/or very substantial. If it's something you did every other weekend, no. If it's the Peace Corps, yes.
5) I would list something as substantial as a National Guard or other military deployment, per advice in #4. Other than that, briefly mention in cover letter, not on resume.
As someone who manages the hiring process for our firm, my view on this quesion is rather simple. At the end of the day, we hire the people who convince us they're qualified and capable of doing the job. We "get" the economy and don't look down our noses at people who may have gaps in their resumes. Even before the recession, we'd see gaps all the time with candidates - most frequently with individuals who took some time off to have a child or deal with a family health situation. At the end of the day, what's important is whether the candidate was able to maintain, or even improve, his/her knowledge and skills during that gap period.
Look -- let's be realistic. No employer is going to pass over a clearly qualiflied candidate to hire someone who is less qualified. The challenge is not so much about explaining gaps as it is crafting a presentation (either in the form of a submittal package or via an interview) that tells the employer you can do the job. And, you can't just "assert" that you can do the job -- you have to be able to demonstrate in a credible manner that you can do the job.
I know this is tough, but many of you are where you are due to no fault of your own. You've got to look reality in the face and concentrate on what's really important when looking for a job. "Gaps" alone aren't important -- however, the back story is important, as is your ability to perform for the employer.
as always, nicely said quizzical.
i would add to rationalists comment, don't bother trying to hide things. it probably won't work out very well if you are fudging and stretching the truth. it is usually pretty obvious.
the market is not easy now. lie-ing on resume to make it look like the down-turn has not affected you does not really make sense to me. it likely will not make sense to anyone in a position to hire new staff either.
as for other non-architecture related work on resume...it is up to you. sometimes it can be an interesting conversation starter or highlight unexpected skills. so far, on resumes we get we tend to ignore that stuff though, because it does not usually reflect on the ability of the person to do the work we need them to take on. it has never been a negative though.
If a firm is going to look down on you about something that was out of your control (like the recession), you probably don't want to work for that firm in the first place.
I once interviewed with a firm in Philly after I had already had 5 years of post-college experience and they were questioning why I hadn't done a summer internship between the summer of 2002 where there was the dot com recession - mind you that was 9 years eariler. I thanked them for their entertainment and went back down to DC where I accepted another position.
Similiar boat is Peter, as far gaps are concerned. Graduated in 2009, have done about 3 short term contract projecs for a couple of companies. However nothing long lasting and I haven't worked in an acutual arch office. Been a business analyst for almost 3 years and last interview I had the guy directly tell me being an analyst for so long looks bad on my resume. Well, duhhhhhhh, I know that. I wouldn't be a business analyst if a freaking firm would actually give me a chance (worst catch 22 everrrrr).
But I digress. Alas.......
This from quizzical is really key:
"The challenge is not so much about explaining gaps as it is crafting a presentation (either in the form of a submittal package or via an interview) that tells the employer you can do the job."
In other words, you need to explain yourself in a compelling fashion. Architects tend to be poor storytellers. But it is skill that can be worked on. Seriously, next you're with a group of people try recounting an experience and see if it falls flat or if you can hold your audience. And keep practising until you can.
Also, in addition to telling the employer that "you can do the job," you also need to convince him that you want the job. Candidates often sabotage themselves because their interest in a given job is no more than a paycheck. But if your story is about something bigger than yourself and your interest in working with us is part of that story, well, then that can be quite compelling, it might even make me want to work with you. Now that's a candidate that is difficult not to hire, putting the ball squarely in my court. Of course in a competitive market like this there may well be others like you but at this point you've done that best you can (and you might be one of the first people I think of next time around).
Lastly, if you are ever rejected because of a "resume gap" it may just be a smokescreen. Assuming that you are otherwise qualified, it's an easy polite way of dismissing you when the real problem could be a difficult intangible (style, attitude, body odor, even gender or race, etc)
Yo!
At the end of the day, what's important is whether the candidate was able to maintain, or even improve, his/her knowledge and skills during that gap period.
I agree 100%. I know that even though I have a 1.5 year gap and had to do small freelance work and non arch work to get by, I needed to keep doing architecture on my own time because I love it and I dont want to get behind. I am working on several house concepts, did a couple competitions, and even considering putting a set of CD's together just to demonstrate that I taught myself how to and compensated for my inability to get formal experiance. Anyway, I am putting together a post-graduate portfolio titled "underemployed post-graduate portfolio" to make light of the issue, and claim power over my situation as a positive period of learing and refining my craft. I can't imagine that anyone would see this as a negative thing.
It's all about taking control of your situation and showing initiative. You know the saying "when life gives you lemons" maybe that would be a better title for the portfolio....
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