I'm hoping that somebody could offer some advice on getting an entry level job in today's economy.
Here's my situation:
I spent 4 years and $80,000 to get my bachelors degree in architecture from a New York college called Alfred State. I did very well and have a good resume and portfolio to show for my time there. Unfortunately I have no work experience in the field which seems to be holding me back, even for the "entry level jobs".
I graduated in May and since then I have sent out hundreds of resumes and applications. I hear back from about 3% of these jobs and most of the time they say "thanks for your interest, but your qualifications are not good enough for us but we'll keep your information on file".
The closest city to where i live is about 50 miles north (Rochester N.Y.). I've been applying to jobs all over the country and cant seem to get any luck. Its not like I'm greedy either, I'm willing to work for 12 bucks an hour for my first few years.
Anybody is welcome to look at my portfolio here on Archinect and give me some constructive criticism (Maybe my portfolio just needs to look better).
Does anybody out there have some advice or tips for getting that "entry level job"???
Make sure you are being specific with your applications, I'm sure you've heard that and someone else will probably say it again.
If you're willing to do 12 an hour, I'd say get a construction job, get your hands dirty, learn how a building really goes together, save on those gym fee's, and then add that to your resume.
The best advice for getting an entry-level job is that there is no advice. It's a combination of timing and dumb luck.
There's factors that definitely help but they are more qualitative than quantitative:
A "good" portfolio helps but also hurts equally. If your portfolio presents a lot of sound technical drawings and bland-but-market-ready designs, a firm leaning towards iconic architecture and hype will not be interested. Likewise, if your portfolio is filled with a lot of flashy graphics, decent art and grandiose designs, a more formal firm will not consider it.
Networking is a good start to learn about the community around you and the firms operating in a specific area. But everyone is networking right now— it's one thing to start up a conversation or inquire about a firm's operation for the sake of knowledge exchange but that sort of activity quickly puts people on the defensive and can make you look needy and desperate.
Education can mean dozens of things to dozens of people. Like portfolios, educational background and quality is highly subjective. Some people might respect a theory heavy education while others will dismiss it as a fool's errand. However, a technical and science based education might forever label you as someone who follows rules and protocol with little ability to "think outside the box."
If you're starting to notice a duality here, it's because it exists as the giant white elephant in the room. No one wants to acknowledge it exists but it is clearly visible. Really, all you can do is apply and apply early.
You might be able to gain some experience working on a proposal or competition, trying your luck getting some experience with a not-for-profit or a professional organization or inquiring about short-term internships. But hundreds, if not thousands, of people are doing this as well.
About your portfolio, I checked it out. Your work is good, but I think you can make the portfolio look a lot more interesting with a different, more clean modern look. The current background that you have is kind of distracting and not very "fresh". I would make changes to the layout and get feedback. Maybe show some white background, and try to tell a story. Hope this helps.
And I don't think you need the sketchy lines to frame each image. You can let white space frame the images with something simple that conects all the pages (like a line or a certain color font). Look up the latest colors that are used in graphics these days. Simple and clean is the key.
J. James R. - I think I might have to use 2 portfolios now; One that more appealing to the more conservative type firm, and the other to a more flashy and modern firm. I have a small network that i can start trying to dig into, hopefully some bridges i built in college help me out :D Thanks for the advice man!! now where can I find some of that "dumb luck"? haha
Nope no arch job. I have had 2 interviews past 2 weeks, they both were promising. One is $14,000 paycut from my non-arch job. But I might have to take it just to get my foot in the door. Just sucks since I'll have to live a very modest life for a while as my friends excel in their careers and it's like I'm just starting out. Sucks sucks.
Some other advice/tips
- Make sure your resume is on point, have several look over it
- Become LEED GA, it can help
- Not only search Craigslist, but post your resume on there too
- Visit local AIA events
You'll be ok . May wasn't that long ago, trust me as the months turn into years then it's time to worry. Hence why I'm stressed out half the time.
I will only comment on one aspect of your search, the portfolio.
Consider sending firms a tightly composed page or two of images from really well done projects of yours with a cover letter and resume. They can't criticize what they can't see and looking through all the submissions becomes a real chore. You will definitely stand out with just two pages of work samples, and by the time they are asking for a full portfolio, they already want to hire you and don't even know it yet.
I also know I had a hard time with a cover letter. The stuff you get advised to send by HR consultants doesn't work in the architecture world, so if you need examples, ask.
I grew up in Binghamton and went to UB for architecture. I know the upstate well although I've moved south. I would think you would have better luck in some smaller cities like the Corning Elmira Horseheads area. Have you tried looking there? I knew some people at Keystone Associates in Binghamton that were Alfred St graduates, you could contact them. You're dealing with a really small community in upstate NY especially outside of Buffalo and Rochester, so I would say your best bet would be networking in these smaller cities like Elmira, Jamestown, Binghamton. Go to AIA events, CSI, anything you hear of, and really press your professors for help since I believe a lot of them are practicing or have recently been practicing. I would also say these smaller firms would not mind if you popped in with your resume and portfolio.
Quentin - Thanks man and good luck getting the job! seriously if i could send you some luck in the mail i would cos i know what its like to try getting in.
Nicholas - Great idea dude!!! I shaved my portfolio down to the 4 best projects and I really think this might help. Thanks man!
HeavyMetalArchitecture - Hey man, its nick talking to a somewhat local on here. yes I've been trying the Elmira/Corning/Bighamton areas but no luck yet. I'm actually going to go back through and check again though and maybe I'll be in luck this time around. Handing in my resume and portfolio in person is a good idea too man. Thank You.
I think using one image per slide might make you lose the focus on the overall project. I think it's more effective, for sample pages, to try to limit the amount of pages, because I feel like sample pages have to send the message across quickly.
I created a new post with a link to my sample pages, I could also use some feedback from anyone who has a minute. Thank you! Here is the link to the post:
I've had quite a bit of luck with Nick's suggestion. The "portfolio" I send out initially is 3 pages + cover letter and resume. 1 project per page, just to get them hooked and responding, plus they haven't seen the entire portfolio when I go in for an interview so I'm not repeating what they've already seen. It is getting a good response rate and I've been on some interviews in Chicago the past two weeks. Craft it so it hooks them within a minute or so, because realistically that is about the amount of time they will initially look at it.
I also have a portfolio website set up if they want to dig deeper into my work.
I am almost in same dilemma as you were, can i have a chat with you on any of the social networking website, please do send me a mail at starchitect13@gmail.com
Since this thread got bumped, did you find a job Matthew? I had 3 interviews in August in got none. (weeps in corner). Recently relcoated, but no bites here either. FML.
I would greatly support the recommendation of of sending a condensed portfolio with your résumé. I just started the job search here in NYC and NJ and have done just that.
Out of curiosity though, do your school/faculty not teach you this. In my school (the savannah college of art and design) we called it the "portfolio teaser" and the idea was driven into our brains. As several others already mention, and I think it becomes pretty obvious after you think about it, you don't want them seeing your full portfolio before meeting you. If they see the full thing they can make a decision without ever speaking to you. You want to leave them wanting more.
Think of it this way, the process is 2 steps. 1 you send them your résumé cover letter and "teaser" the goal of this is not to get a job or get hired, the goal is to get an interview. Then 2. The goal of the interview is to sell you, and convince them to hire you.
I would greatly support the recommendation of of sending a condensed portfolio with your résumé. I just started the job search here in NYC and NJ and have done just that.
Out of curiosity though, do your school/faculty not teach you this. In my school (the savannah college of art and design) we called it the "portfolio teaser" and the idea was driven into our brains. As several others already mention, and I think it becomes pretty obvious after you think about it, you don't want them seeing your full portfolio before meeting you. If they see the full thing they can make a decision without ever speaking to you. You want to leave them wanting more.
Think of it this way, the process is 2 steps. 1 you send them your résumé cover letter and "teaser" the goal of this is not to get a job or get hired, the goal is to get an interview. Then 2. The goal of the interview is to sell you, and convince them to hire you.
I didnt read thru everyones posts but as someone who has been very successful in the last 4 years with jobs I offer you this:
1. Be very professional. This includes all internet content (facebook, twitter, arcinect, linkedin, etc.) Delete your profiles if you must.
2. Craft. Your email and cover letter should scream quality, professionalism, competence, and willingness to work hard and especially to learn.
3. Be the first to send your resume to the email address they provided. When I was unemployed I use to rush home to check the job boards.
4. Be persistent and dont give up.
I've also been job hunting(while working on my thesis...or procrastinating with my thesis!) I've send at least 150 resumes in the past 2 months (admittedly my portfolio is still a work in progress so i just send small design samples attached to my CV), I am very reasonable with my expectations as an entry level applicant, even as an architect's assistant....gotta pay your dues right? So far no luck whatsoever and its extremely discouraging! But i guess perseverance is key right? ALL THE BEST TO MY FELLOW JOB HUNTERS OUT THERE!
I graduated from Hampton University with a 3.5 GPA with honors, May 2011 obtaining my master's degree in Architecture and still looking for an entry-level Architect position.
It is very frustrating. I owe $150k in private loans which my parents are struggling to pay. I have done short-term volunteer work with no pay. I do not mind working without pay to gain quality experience but that is even hard to find.
This career was my dream since the age of 14, and I was determined to get a master's degree. I cannot believe that entry-level jobs are asking for 2-3 years experience. I finally have to realize that I picked the wrong career.
This is depressing and I do not know why architecture degrees are offered if there are no jobs. The schools should reimburse everyone because this is a career that does not seem to have a future.
I can't afford to go back to school and now have to try to find another field that I am passionate about. Those of you who have managed to get employment, you are blessed.
I really don't see how many people are struggling. The best thing you can do to get a job is make connections. Join professional associations with a large membership base. I joined ASCE, ASAE, and NSHE. There are so many companies that are ready to hire but just aren't too open to hiring anyone. You have to put the work in and show up at their door and let them know who you are. You should apply for positions before you receive your degree. I am only a junior but I have made more than a few relationships here a Syracuse U that are willing to put a good word in for me. Its all about making the right connections and showing your worth.
can we see your portfolio? some people 'think' they have good work to show when it plain sucks. Just being frank. I've done about half a dozen paid internships, have sent out about 2 dozen emails looking for work at most and got a response of offer for 90% of the emails.
ever consider applying to firms here in NYC.. theres a lot more activity here than anywhere else.. a lot of my college friends did that after graduating
Jesus I agree with making connections but sometimes connections only go so far. Up to this point all of my positions have been acquired without ever interviewing simply because I "knew" people. The problem is that when the recession hit not only were some of our contacts hit, their connections were too. I'm only now starting to see some of my connections point out open positions at different firms, mostly large firms but an opening is an opening.
It probably affected me more since I've focused on small firms, under 10 employees. (not a fan of huge firms if you couldn't tell by the prior comment.)
Entry Level Architecture Job - Advice Anyone?
Hello all.
I'm hoping that somebody could offer some advice on getting an entry level job in today's economy.
Here's my situation:
I spent 4 years and $80,000 to get my bachelors degree in architecture from a New York college called Alfred State. I did very well and have a good resume and portfolio to show for my time there. Unfortunately I have no work experience in the field which seems to be holding me back, even for the "entry level jobs".
I graduated in May and since then I have sent out hundreds of resumes and applications. I hear back from about 3% of these jobs and most of the time they say "thanks for your interest, but your qualifications are not good enough for us but we'll keep your information on file".
The closest city to where i live is about 50 miles north (Rochester N.Y.). I've been applying to jobs all over the country and cant seem to get any luck. Its not like I'm greedy either, I'm willing to work for 12 bucks an hour for my first few years.
Anybody is welcome to look at my portfolio here on Archinect and give me some constructive criticism (Maybe my portfolio just needs to look better).
Does anybody out there have some advice or tips for getting that "entry level job"???
Make sure you are being specific with your applications, I'm sure you've heard that and someone else will probably say it again.
If you're willing to do 12 an hour, I'd say get a construction job, get your hands dirty, learn how a building really goes together, save on those gym fee's, and then add that to your resume.
The best advice for getting an entry-level job is that there is no advice. It's a combination of timing and dumb luck.
There's factors that definitely help but they are more qualitative than quantitative:
If you're starting to notice a duality here, it's because it exists as the giant white elephant in the room. No one wants to acknowledge it exists but it is clearly visible. Really, all you can do is apply and apply early.
You might be able to gain some experience working on a proposal or competition, trying your luck getting some experience with a not-for-profit or a professional organization or inquiring about short-term internships. But hundreds, if not thousands, of people are doing this as well.
Welcome to the club. 09' graduate here. Network is probably your best bet or luck. As others have already said. Do you have a professional degree?
About your portfolio, I checked it out. Your work is good, but I think you can make the portfolio look a lot more interesting with a different, more clean modern look. The current background that you have is kind of distracting and not very "fresh". I would make changes to the layout and get feedback. Maybe show some white background, and try to tell a story. Hope this helps.
And I don't think you need the sketchy lines to frame each image. You can let white space frame the images with something simple that conects all the pages (like a line or a certain color font). Look up the latest colors that are used in graphics these days. Simple and clean is the key.
Fullofit - Yes I'm being specific with my applications. I'm taking my time with each one and trying to make myself look attractive for each job. As for the construction job idea, yes that's defiantly an option to be considered. Thank You!
J. James R. - I think I might have to use 2 portfolios now; One that more appealing to the more conservative type firm, and the other to a more flashy and modern firm. I have a small network that i can start trying to dig into, hopefully some bridges i built in college help me out :D Thanks for the advice man!! now where can I find some of that "dumb luck"? haha
Quentin - About 10 of my class of 44 have architecture jobs now so I'll talk to them and hopefully get my foot in the door with one of there firms. Yeas i have a Bachelors of Science in architecture as well as an Associates of Applied Science in Architecture as well. Congratulations Graduating in 09, do you have an architecture job now?
Sanuma12 - I see what your saying about my portfolio as far as style goes. Like J. James R. was saying about different firms would like to see different styles I think im going to come up with a second portfolio template with a more modern approach, and use each according to the firm being applied to. What do you think about using just one image per slide which would make it bigger?
Ahhh So much blue text ! ! !
Nope no arch job. I have had 2 interviews past 2 weeks, they both were promising. One is $14,000 paycut from my non-arch job. But I might have to take it just to get my foot in the door. Just sucks since I'll have to live a very modest life for a while as my friends excel in their careers and it's like I'm just starting out. Sucks sucks.
Some other advice/tips
- Make sure your resume is on point, have several look over it
- Become LEED GA, it can help
- Not only search Craigslist, but post your resume on there too
- Visit local AIA events
You'll be ok . May wasn't that long ago, trust me as the months turn into years then it's time to worry. Hence why I'm stressed out half the time.
I will only comment on one aspect of your search, the portfolio.
Consider sending firms a tightly composed page or two of images from really well done projects of yours with a cover letter and resume. They can't criticize what they can't see and looking through all the submissions becomes a real chore. You will definitely stand out with just two pages of work samples, and by the time they are asking for a full portfolio, they already want to hire you and don't even know it yet.
I also know I had a hard time with a cover letter. The stuff you get advised to send by HR consultants doesn't work in the architecture world, so if you need examples, ask.
Hey Mathew,
I grew up in Binghamton and went to UB for architecture. I know the upstate well although I've moved south. I would think you would have better luck in some smaller cities like the Corning Elmira Horseheads area. Have you tried looking there? I knew some people at Keystone Associates in Binghamton that were Alfred St graduates, you could contact them. You're dealing with a really small community in upstate NY especially outside of Buffalo and Rochester, so I would say your best bet would be networking in these smaller cities like Elmira, Jamestown, Binghamton. Go to AIA events, CSI, anything you hear of, and really press your professors for help since I believe a lot of them are practicing or have recently been practicing. I would also say these smaller firms would not mind if you popped in with your resume and portfolio.
Quentin - Thanks man and good luck getting the job! seriously if i could send you some luck in the mail i would cos i know what its like to try getting in.
Nicholas - Great idea dude!!! I shaved my portfolio down to the 4 best projects and I really think this might help. Thanks man!
HeavyMetalArchitecture - Hey man, its nick talking to a somewhat local on here. yes I've been trying the Elmira/Corning/Bighamton areas but no luck yet. I'm actually going to go back through and check again though and maybe I'll be in luck this time around. Handing in my resume and portfolio in person is a good idea too man. Thank You.
Matthew,
I think using one image per slide might make you lose the focus on the overall project. I think it's more effective, for sample pages, to try to limit the amount of pages, because I feel like sample pages have to send the message across quickly.
I created a new post with a link to my sample pages, I could also use some feedback from anyone who has a minute. Thank you! Here is the link to the post:
http://archinect.com/forum/thread/55806241/feedback-needed-on-work-samples-for-a-general-job-application
I've had quite a bit of luck with Nick's suggestion. The "portfolio" I send out initially is 3 pages + cover letter and resume. 1 project per page, just to get them hooked and responding, plus they haven't seen the entire portfolio when I go in for an interview so I'm not repeating what they've already seen. It is getting a good response rate and I've been on some interviews in Chicago the past two weeks. Craft it so it hooks them within a minute or so, because realistically that is about the amount of time they will initially look at it.
I also have a portfolio website set up if they want to dig deeper into my work.
Hey Matthew J. Mott,
I am almost in same dilemma as you were, can i have a chat with you on any of the social networking website, please do send me a mail at starchitect13@gmail.com
_Thanks
Since this thread got bumped, did you find a job Matthew? I had 3 interviews in August in got none. (weeps in corner). Recently relcoated, but no bites here either. FML.
I would greatly support the recommendation of of sending a condensed portfolio with your résumé. I just started the job search here in NYC and NJ and have done just that.
Out of curiosity though, do your school/faculty not teach you this. In my school (the savannah college of art and design) we called it the "portfolio teaser" and the idea was driven into our brains. As several others already mention, and I think it becomes pretty obvious after you think about it, you don't want them seeing your full portfolio before meeting you. If they see the full thing they can make a decision without ever speaking to you. You want to leave them wanting more.
Think of it this way, the process is 2 steps. 1 you send them your résumé cover letter and "teaser" the goal of this is not to get a job or get hired, the goal is to get an interview. Then 2. The goal of the interview is to sell you, and convince them to hire you.
I would greatly support the recommendation of of sending a condensed portfolio with your résumé. I just started the job search here in NYC and NJ and have done just that.
Out of curiosity though, do your school/faculty not teach you this. In my school (the savannah college of art and design) we called it the "portfolio teaser" and the idea was driven into our brains. As several others already mention, and I think it becomes pretty obvious after you think about it, you don't want them seeing your full portfolio before meeting you. If they see the full thing they can make a decision without ever speaking to you. You want to leave them wanting more.
Think of it this way, the process is 2 steps. 1 you send them your résumé cover letter and "teaser" the goal of this is not to get a job or get hired, the goal is to get an interview. Then 2. The goal of the interview is to sell you, and convince them to hire you.
Hey, cool idea, so it is a success for you ! ?
I'm just going to leave this here
http://archinect.com/finding-my-first-job
I didnt read thru everyones posts but as someone who has been very successful in the last 4 years with jobs I offer you this:
1. Be very professional. This includes all internet content (facebook, twitter, arcinect, linkedin, etc.) Delete your profiles if you must.
2. Craft. Your email and cover letter should scream quality, professionalism, competence, and willingness to work hard and especially to learn.
3. Be the first to send your resume to the email address they provided. When I was unemployed I use to rush home to check the job boards.
4. Be persistent and dont give up.
Good Luck
Hi all,
I've also been job hunting(while working on my thesis...or procrastinating with my thesis!) I've send at least 150 resumes in the past 2 months (admittedly my portfolio is still a work in progress so i just send small design samples attached to my CV), I am very reasonable with my expectations as an entry level applicant, even as an architect's assistant....gotta pay your dues right? So far no luck whatsoever and its extremely discouraging! But i guess perseverance is key right? ALL THE BEST TO MY FELLOW JOB HUNTERS OUT THERE!
I graduated from Hampton University with a 3.5 GPA with honors, May 2011 obtaining my master's degree in Architecture and still looking for an entry-level Architect position.
It is very frustrating. I owe $150k in private loans which my parents are struggling to pay. I have done short-term volunteer work with no pay. I do not mind working without pay to gain quality experience but that is even hard to find.
This career was my dream since the age of 14, and I was determined to get a master's degree. I cannot believe that entry-level jobs are asking for 2-3 years experience. I finally have to realize that I picked the wrong career.
This is depressing and I do not know why architecture degrees are offered if there are no jobs. The schools should reimburse everyone because this is a career that does not seem to have a future.
I can't afford to go back to school and now have to try to find another field that I am passionate about. Those of you who have managed to get employment, you are blessed.
I really don't see how many people are struggling. The best thing you can do to get a job is make connections. Join professional associations with a large membership base. I joined ASCE, ASAE, and NSHE. There are so many companies that are ready to hire but just aren't too open to hiring anyone. You have to put the work in and show up at their door and let them know who you are. You should apply for positions before you receive your degree. I am only a junior but I have made more than a few relationships here a Syracuse U that are willing to put a good word in for me. Its all about making the right connections and showing your worth.
can we see your portfolio? some people 'think' they have good work to show when it plain sucks. Just being frank. I've done about half a dozen paid internships, have sent out about 2 dozen emails looking for work at most and got a response of offer for 90% of the emails.
ever consider applying to firms here in NYC.. theres a lot more activity here than anywhere else.. a lot of my college friends did that after graduating
Jesus I agree with making connections but sometimes connections only go so far. Up to this point all of my positions have been acquired without ever interviewing simply because I "knew" people. The problem is that when the recession hit not only were some of our contacts hit, their connections were too. I'm only now starting to see some of my connections point out open positions at different firms, mostly large firms but an opening is an opening.
It probably affected me more since I've focused on small firms, under 10 employees. (not a fan of huge firms if you couldn't tell by the prior comment.)