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Featured Discussion: Volume

Feb 13 '07 188 Last Comment
Orhan AyyüceOrhan Ayyüce
Apr 22, 07 8:20 pm
Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 22, 07 8:23 pm

just to point it out, i really like quondam by the way...

i guess here is my problem with terms like de-territorialization and de-construction...and as you mention in your definition of quondam - unbuilding, etc...

how is one's stance de-territorialized? the word itself assumes a reference to an_other territory. the word is a verb, which is something you must act out to continually remain in a de-territorial state, but once you have finished de-territorializing you have created a territory.

if i understand your last sentence properly, i think you mean their is no point in attempting to create a territory as an end in itself, rather its better to just de-territorialize until a new territory, one that is perhaps unexpected, is created?

with that said, the act of "agitation" obviously is means for deterritorializing whatever territory is present...

this is the magic of Volumes suggestion, which I think many have been done before, but perhaps not as successfully (oppositions and most arch theory). by means of their type of composition, they assume an act of agitation, an act that is in confrontation with current territory of Architecture in all it's realms...BUT BUT BUT an act of rebellion that becomes the birth of a movement that becomes the structure of existence looses its initial political logic and actually becomes the new territory to rebel against. now they suggest the possiblity of redunancy in magazining,etc...this is actually the next level of logic in composition to avoid "the rebel" becomes "the state", they say let us get more rebels to overwhelm our rebellion. so if any of us were paying attention, which i just did, i think i'm supposed to go out and do a Quondam or two...

hope that made since...



nonarchitect
Apr 22, 07 9:09 pm

metamechanic, i still cannot see the reason why Volume existed in the first place, especially in the form of a magazine, since as you point out, and I have noticed, they are not interested in acknowledging the magazine industry. the magazine clearly does not "agitate" me. If the whole point was to "de-territorialize" as you pointed out, perhaps their efforts is better spent lobbying for the dis-banding of NCARB ? or the AIA ??

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 22, 07 9:59 pm

i don't want to assume i am speaking for Volume, but your arguement based on my assumption that they want us to go out and make magazines could actually be used in the way you suggest.

perhaps you could start with pamphlets, political campaigns...that do what you thing "agitation" should do.

that is actually a good idea nonarchitect.

nonarchitect
Apr 23, 07 12:05 am

Huh ?? metamechanics, what makes you think that you or the Volume people wants us to make magazines?? i'm making you tube videos !

liberty bell
Apr 23, 07 12:20 am

Isn't one reason to put a collection of ideas into a "magazine" simply so that there is a physical artifact in the world? I'm not yet completely divorced from physical material, I think most of us aren't. Stephen, the influence of Quondam notwithstanding, there is still a certain power in the physical object.

Relevant to the notion of acknowledging the magazine industry, Ole Bouman said "Most architecture magazines show images which idealize our world to such a degree that it almost becomes unrecognizable. This imagery has a politics that isolates architecture from the rest of the world." And Mark Wigley: Criticism is in such bad shape these days. Saying nice things alongside perfect images from perfect angles of the latest product is such a waste of time and paper. The discipline acts as if buildings are so sensitive that any less than soothing or flattering words in their vicinity will make them come out in a rash and spoil the photographs.

So perhaps not taking on the magazine industry as a whole but only the architecture glossies.

Orhan AyyüceOrhan Ayyüce
Apr 23, 07 12:40 am

An excerpt touching base with architectural writing in glossies.

"...Instead of eating lunch, I had a dissatisfied reader. That is, somebody who recognized me and started to corner me about "how narrow minded I was when I didn't say anything too great about so and so, in one of my previous 'essays' and how I am nothing but a hound dog who bites the hand that feeds him". Auch! Like what, sir? Do you mean architectural writing degree xoxox , like saying amore to a three legged red dishwasher enough times to match the number of photos per page? Nope. "It ain't me..." is followed by two calmer-downers Tina put in my pillbox. No lunch but I am calm.

from AIA06 Diary : An Architect Goes Towards the Edge June,2006



aspect
Apr 23, 07 12:42 am

i always assume magazine is for the leisure and enjoyment... i do not normally theorize/contemplate nor any kind of thought struggle before my subscription. if i'm in doubt, i usually borrow it.

i read a few issues on Volume, i admit that i do enjoy on dog training, neil denari's article and a few others, especially the thai transsexual dancer at hongkong on volume 2, which i'm very surprise Volume had mentioned this since even the mainstream local media had ignored.

liberty bell
Apr 23, 07 12:48 am

I finally managed to read BLDGBLOG's interview with Inaba here.

I think I feel much more sympathetic to Volume's goals now. Not that I wasn't before, but it felt a bit overly academic; the interview makes i seem like a human endeavor. Helpful reading.

Steven WardSteven Ward
Apr 23, 07 7:29 am

because lb linked it, i also just read the inaba interview. that's one smart guy.

i almost wish that he wasn't in architecture but could talk about architecture and urbanism in the way that he does, but from outside it. i can buy into most of what was said in the interview, even the parts that are probably more about provocation than anything - but i bet most of us architect-types could. it's fun to think about how we can find urban models and architectural connections out in the world and in other disciplines and we have shared experiences that allow us to respond similarly. we can read about saddam's palaces as mcmansions and nod and smile.

but one of the smartest observations inaba made, and one which i wish we could all find a way to address, is the acknowledgement that there is a whole host of people - his example being financial management-types - that he (and i - and probably most of the rest of us here) don't know, won't know, and therefore, don't understand. and that they might have as much impact on urban development as designers.

so back to my question from earlier, worded a little differently: what is the vehicle for connecting with urban stakeholders with whom we have no experience? it's not an internal architectural conversation like this or like volume. it's not something schools have time to foster. and the kind of connection/conversation that would have to happen is not likely to happen over lunch or after church service if i were to join rotary, kiwanis, chamber of commerce, or a church.

maybe a way to infiltrate the newspapers?! if jeffrey were to get hired on at gannett, maybe get a column in usa today, i would subscribe in a minute. then i would know that i'm reading the same 'news' point-of-view as the guys in ties on planes and the start-up ceos in the warehouse district.

we don't have walter cronkite any more. the 3 legacy networks are now splintered into 100s. the culture that we share is in the non-space of 'american idol', 'dancing with the stars', and seattle grace hospital. the shared consensus in how we receive information about the world we're making outside has been lost. or we never had it. i don't know.

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 7:47 am

nonarchitect...magazine, videos...etc...all result of various modes of composition... i think the arguement goes for both.

steven

the reason we (architects) usually don't know these management type is that we think they are against our ethics.

i get a copy of "Crane" (which if you're in NYC, the most important local businss publication) i also chose UPenn over others due the designs schools ties to the real estate department and Wharton. my best friends are in real estate and investment.

the vehicle for connecting is simple, give up architecture culture, its really not that important.

i used to wear hawaiin shirts to architecture events where black was the guaranteed color.

maybe we need an archigram like publication that "agitates" the architects into this mode of thinking?

(if these investment bankers, real estate guys, are really that much less intelligent thatn us (the usual architect consesus) then why are they so much more influential?)

Steven WardSteven Ward
Apr 23, 07 8:00 am

well, that kind of goes to the opposite extreme. i neither think they're less intelligent than us nor more intelligent. but we certainly have things to learn from each other.

the problem i see is that the conversation that i might like to have with an investment banker is never likely to happen because we don't have a shared language or a shared perspective. and that could only come over a longish relationship. (maybe it's not merely discrimination or cronyism that keeps the old gray haired guys successful, it's that they've built these relationships during which they've developed a range of shared experiences, but that's a different subject.)

the shared perspective MIGHT be something that could be fostered through a more universal media outlet, but then there would be a loss of diverse points-of-view. there are both benefits and liabilities to our culture having become so scattered.

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 8:18 am

steven you and volume just gave me an idea i'll pursue come May after graduation...it's about tapping into these guys imaginations.

my best friend since junior high is a stock broker. i've given him 3 architecure books for christmas, we traveled europe together checking out all the cool architecture...yet when he asked me to design his home based on his sketches it was McMansion...my response to him was condescending of course. we played football together, so a little harrassment is quite typical. you know what his response was -

"well i might want to re-sale it, and anything to weird won't sell in the market." he'd seen Gehry, Piano, etc... but still wanted english castle?

but he takes pride in the fact that he can drop a fact about a Gehry building.

"the shared perspective MIGHT be something that could be fostered through a more universal media outlet"

i'd really like to see this, but i feel it would be a back and forth, a volume of disperate ideas, like you're saying, which is why tapping into their imagination might be more interesting.

vado retro
Apr 23, 07 10:44 am

physically architecture is territorial. territorial in the sense that there are these things called plats of survey. that there are these things called area restrictions, floor area ratio, building height limitations etc that force buildings to be territorial. now the territory of the mind is a another beast. you don't want to go there.

Steven WardSteven Ward
Apr 23, 07 11:02 am

you can do architecture on/for a boat. (not just hypothetical, because i have.)
architects can design prefab housing for erection at any location. some design furniture at what can be an architectural scale.
shigeru ban's post-disaster shelters can be used in a variety of places based on the 'territory' of catastrophic events, not political or social environs.
herman miller and haworth have predesigned rooms that can be sort of 'plugged in' to a spec ofc at any location.

we'll have to be more specific about "territory".

liberty bell
Apr 23, 07 11:37 am

This is a "well, duh" moment for me, but vado's post makes me think the reason the form of favelas etc. - their ad hoc-ness, I suppose - is why they are so fascinating. Form made entirely outside of any "territorial" i.e. governmental OR educational (I won't say social) restrictions. Although Houston has no zoning, right? And its form definitely doesn't fascinate me.

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 12:14 pm

can somebody post the architectural "territory" definition?

John JourdenJohn Jourden
Apr 23, 07 12:30 pm

it has been awhile since i read it, but i believe bernard cache's earth moves has a nice "definition"/explanation of "territory". i'll look what i got at home and see if i have a few lines on the puter

Apr 23, 07 3:41 pm

metamechanic. lately I've been looking forward to your posts the most. What you think I meant regard "limits are not worth reaching for" is similar to what I think I meant.

Yes, it seems to make sense that de-territiorialization ultimately registers a re-territorialization, but it is the effect of de-territorialization (on one's thinking) that is the most important aspect here. And I guess you could say that new mode of thinking is what then shapes the new "territory".

(btw, I think if you had further pursued the cartesian grid discussion, you would have ultimately clobbered me.)

I have no idea if this is so, but I wonder if this composition might be an example of de-territorialized architecture.

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 4:36 pm

somewhere after clicking the arrows i think it said quondam does not intend to confuse (or similiar, maybe it was does intend to confuse)

the church synagogue mosque i guess you could argue is a "composition" of de-terrtorilzation in this sense: the one composing intentionally takes 3 very "territorialized" architectures and cuts and pastes them together without intentions to evoke any of the original architectures, nor is there really a goal in mind (i would think).

so we could say this is one method of de-territorializing through composition. causing collisions of well defined territories to create possible re-territorializations...i say possible, because the clash probably brings about various choices the composer could sign on to if they so choose.

i saw stirling and kahn in the church synagogue mosque.

if wrightenstein is a reference to wittgenstein, i'm not sure what to make of that yet...

Apr 23, 07 5:08 pm

Firminy church by Le Corbusier
Hurva synagogue by Kahn

composition 1a: the act or action of composing : the formation of a whole especially by different things being put together

To confuse or not to confuse, that is de-territorialization?

[the church/synagogue composition came as a result of seeing how the plan of the church fit almost perfectly within the sanctuary(?) of the synagogue. And, since I had a model of both buildings, I just wanted to see the superimosition in 3D. And upon seeing that I thought, "Gosh, that kinda looks like a mosque." Trust me, de-territorialized thinking isn't necessarily brilliant, although for the most part uninhibited.]

Anyway, back to Volume....The reporter on the radio just said, "Heavy volume on Passyunk Aveune..." Hey, traffic would make a great theme for a heavy issue. Trafficing in Architecture--I wanna write about stolen goods.

[I think Passyunk is an old 'Indian trail'. Wow, Philadelphia's Indian trail, talk about de-territorialization.]

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 7:23 pm

nice stephen.


On Territory from my notes on Deleuze and Guatarri and Cache:

"The technical element becomes a tool when it is abstracted from the territory and is applied to the earth as an object; but at the same time, the sign ceases to be inscribed upon the body and is written upon an immobile, objective matter." Deleuze & Guatarri, A Thousand Plateaues: capitalism and schizophrenia, p.401

"As Virilio emphasizes, the sea became the place of the fleet in being, where one no longer goes from one point to another, but rather holds spaces beginning from any point: instead of striating space, one occupies it with a vector of deterritorialization in perpetual motion." D&G, 1000 Plats, p.387

"...nothing is more deterritorialized than matter-movement." D&G, 1000 Plats, p. 415

"Architecture would be the art of introducing intervals in a territory in order to construct frames of probability." Bernard Cache, Earth Moves, p.23

"Architecture builds its space of compatibility on a mode of discontinuity." BC, EM, p. 24

"As its position changes, the relation among the mobile, its parts and milea also change, endowing the whole with a new quality." BC, EM, p.145

"The ground itself becomes a sculpture: a variable curvature outside of any vector."


my contribution to composition of the cut and paste technique

Apr 23, 07 8:46 pm

likewise metamechanic.

I read some stuff on deterritorialization within 1000 Plats last night--Theorems of deterritorialization in "Year Zero: Faciality" and Theorems of deterritorialization in "1730: Becoming-Intense, Becoming Animal, Becoming Imperceptable..." Can't say that I related to any of it though, but I like the p. 387 quotation above. I'll browse some more tonight, plus read Symphonatic No. 1. Looking forward to more numbers. Already inspiring, might even riff off...

"It turns out that humpback whales riff off each other, remixing one another's songs, and developing trends and fashions in their singing over time." Who told them about composition?!?

"a vector of deterritorialization in perpetual motion." --it just so happens that over the weekend I collected (for a Quondam page) all of Miers Fisher's 1812 journal passages on Redheffer's Perpetual Motion Machine. Miers became quite an advocate. Too bad it turned out to be a hoax because it seems that Miers gave a lot of thought to the design principle, and may have actually been on to the real thing. He even waxed philosophical about the great potential of such a device with regard to labor. (And I get a kick over now living where these journal passages were written--same territory but so not the same.)

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 10:15 pm
origin of symphonatic

haven't written one in 7 years, they aren't easy...so riff.

vado retro
Apr 23, 07 10:39 pm

No object can be tied down to any one sort of reality: a stone may be part of a wall, a piece of sculpture, a lethal weapon, a pebble on a beach, or anything else you like, just as this file in my hand can be metamorphosed into a shoe horn or a spoon, according to the way in which i use it... so when you ask me whether a particular form in one of my paintings depicts a woman's head, a fish, a vase, a bird, or all four at once, i can't give you a categorical answere, for this metamorphic, confusion is fundamental to what i am out of express... and then i occasionally introduce forms which have no literal meaning whatsoever. sometimes these are accidents which hpapen to suit my purpose, sometimes rhymes which echo other forms, and sometimes rhythmical motifs which help to integrate a composition and give it movement...objects don't exist for me except insofar as a rapport exist between them or between them and myself.

Apr 23, 07 10:58 pm

metamechanic, just looked up Fayette, MO on google maps.

Spent the summer of 1978 living/working in Perry, MO. Did H.A.B.S. work documenting buildings and towns that are now under Mark Twain Lake. One of the houses I did even turned out to be built on top of an Indian burial site. Some weekends zipped back and forth on back roads to Kansas City, and I think that's why the name Fayette seemed familiar to me. And as to fashion, I got my John Deere cap in Paris.

You don't happen to know Buzzard's Roost? It was my favorite spot in all Missouri.

Apr 23, 07 11:14 pm
Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 23, 07 11:38 pm

so who is that, Thomas Berding? (vado)

i was born in '78 and i don't know Buzzard's Roost.

I rushed my first 100 yard football game against the Paris Coyotes as a Fayette Falcon my junior year of high school...
the funny thing about Paris, Mo is it is complete redneck country, those guys flew confederate flags after we beat them, the brothers of Fayette with our backing were having none of it.

that game against Paris would've been 1995 or so...i also found out that night that my high school girlfriend's father was cleaning his 12 gauge shotgun for me...it worked out in the end, fortunately.

what type of indian burial site? i'm 1/32 sioux according to my mother

does this count as a Volume discussion?


vado retro
Apr 24, 07 10:30 am

its willem dekooning.jeesh

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 24, 07 11:39 am

maybe the picture, but not the words...or at least some of in, but here it is rewritten, and actually quite contextual to this discussion.


"Willem de Koonig always struck me as an artist who was both mindful of the present and able to see beyond it. As much as his work, his attitude towards art history has informed me deeply. Despising demagoguery and litmus tests that made the looking at a painting almost needless, de Kooning, in the words of Harold Roseberg, 'dared, when neccessary, to endure unalleviated confusion.' For he was an artist who held on to art history as much as he rejected it. What de Kooning seemed to be able to grasp keenly was that doctrine, what Rosenberg referred to as 'first aid against bewilderment', was the enemy of the artist. Fortunately, in its prescriptiveness, doctrine unwittingly draws up the plans of its own demise. For in its quest to make the object of its study intelligible, doctrine not only betrays the density of experience that the object offers, making art a lesser thing, but in casting judgements on art not yet made, it preculdes experience. Such forecasting is a death sentence for any practice that claims to be a credible critical examination of art."

"In a twentieth-century artist's hands, the journey in paint not only animates the space, but liquefies categorical understanding of the object altogether. Soutine's Ceret landscapes from the early 1920's create metaphor through a rhythmic odrering of physciality and referent. In their mascularity and open skeletal structure, these landscapes hold a bodily and visceral presence that foreshadow the subject of his Carcass of Bee and Side of Bee paintins only a few years later. The subject is so infused with a reocrd of discovery that a new experience is construed. In an interview with John Richardson from the 1950's, George Braqeu speaks quite directly to this issue, claiming:

No object can be tied down to any one sort of reality: a stone may be part of a wall, a piece of sculpture, a lethal weapon, a pebble on a beach, or anything else you like, just as this file in my hand can be metamorphosed into a shoe horn or a spoon, according to the way in which i use it... so when you ask me whether a particular form in one of my paintings depicts a woman's head, a fish, a vase, a bird, or all four at once, i can't give you a categorical answere, for this metamorphic, confusion is fundamental to what i am out of express."

- Thomas Berding, "On the Company I keep: An Artist Reflects on Art History", The Art Book, Volume 10, Issue 1, January 2003

vado retro
Apr 24, 07 12:32 pm

mea culpa it was georges braque i misread the citation number. but here is a de kooning quote: I am working for weeks and weeks on end on a large picture and have to keep the paint wet so that i can change it over and over, I mean , do the same thing over and over."

dithyramben
Apr 24, 07 2:10 pm

sorry to re-territorialize the discussion, but found some interviews that 'C-Lab' did for Volume, with Francois Roche, Hernan Diaz-Alonso, Peter Cook:

http://c-lab.columbia.edu

interesting discussions, especially the F Roche, which is very 'deterritorialized' (you'll see what i mean...)

i guess they do in fact do more than a magazine, even if the content is not unlike what you would read in print (ie a limited number of sources/voices determining the composition), there is some attempt at addressing the question of media by multiplying the forms that the interview might imply.

new question:
if someone came to you with a small amount of money and some technical expertise and asked you to start a magazine, what would you do?

(all answers are welcome, including those that violate the question (eg 'take the money and start a blog'), but think about it seriously, as if it were happening)

Apr 24, 07 2:28 pm

Red necks indeed, and I mean literally. "Ah, so that's where the term comes from." All I know is that Perry was so small that in order to go out to dinner at night you either had to go to Hannibal (30 miles away) or to Paris (20 miles away). Ah, but well worth the trip if there was a lightening storm at night.

Buzzard's Roost--the view of the Salt River valley from Buzzard's Roost was magnificent, at least it was before the Salt River was dammed and Mark Twain Lake happened.

This is all I know about the burial site.

Read Symphonatic No. 1 a couple times last night. It has a very interesting intensity and an interesting structure--like an ongoing wavelength or even a double helix or something. If I riffed at all it would be off the Finale. It's also fun to just read the author names and not the quotations, kinda like a subplot.

Perhaps this has nothing to do with Volume, and maybe there's a point there in that Volume as a hard copy object could never delived a spontaneous discussion on territory and deterritory.

dithyramben
Apr 24, 07 2:33 pm

but without the 'hard object', Wigley's comment about 'deterritorialization' of the magazine in the discussion above would have never happened, and would never have occasioned this discussion...

so i don't see the point... the magazine is one thing (a 'hard thing', at that), and the discussion around it is another, but they are related.

dithyramben
Apr 24, 07 2:37 pm

but check out Hernan Diaz-Alonso's interview
'being famous in architecture, what does that mean, that a bunch of people will know you at a school. i flew once with David Bowie- that's famous, when you take up the whole first class of an airplane for you and your entourage. all of us, we're just idiots, posing like we're famous...'

wise words on the question of the 'elite' that was brought up earlier here.

Apr 24, 07 2:38 pm

But did/could the hard copy deliver it?

dithyramben
Apr 24, 07 3:02 pm

who knows, maybe this will be published in the next issue. (not that it would matter, it happens here after all, and would be redundant...)

(the conversation with Francois Roche printed in the last issue and produced as video for the net was very much about the question of territories, but granted only initially included a limited number of discussants)

my point is that, of course, different formats have different potentials and different possibilities they preclude, or at least make difficult. it would be the same to say that archinect is generally incapable of delivering a single, sustained, intelligent argument from a single perspective. it isn't a condemnation, just an awareness of the equal value of different approaches.

if Volume wants to print a hard magazine, do real-time/real-space events, produce videos, etc, while focusing only very partially on the internet, i think it is good that someone pushes the potential of the those other media. 'spontaneous conversations' about architecture on the internet are a given, in no small part thanks to Archinect, but that isn't necessarily the only form of knowledge that can be produced (even now...), nor the only format for that knowledge.

in short, yes, it is great that this conversation happens, and no, it could not happen in a hard copy of Volume, or any other magazine. so it is good that they aren't the only game in town, and that they don't only do magazines, and that participation can find many channels, only one of which is internet forums.

Apr 24, 07 3:24 pm

I'm sorry, but that Francois Roche thing was hardly a discussion. I heard a lot of jargon blah blah, and a lot of "yes, yes", but no real discussion. Most of it actually made me laugh.

Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 24, 07 4:23 pm

will check out the Roche link in a second...

my reading of the initial interview and other comments, etc...and my current knowledge arch. theory...

"For in its quest to make the object of its study intelligible, doctrine not only betrays the density of experience that the object offers, making art a lesser thing, but in casting judgements on art not yet made, it preculdes experience."

there seems to be this attempt at 'scripting' possibilities without being too prescriptive.

trying to create 'hard things' that doesn't preclude experience.

"the magazine is one thing (a 'hard thing', at that), and the discussion around it is another, but they are related." - i kind of thought the attempt of Volume was to make a 'hard thing' that doesn't end with its material production, akind of anti-doctrine, which typcially tends to be the end result of architectural acts.

To answer your question dithyramben:

i would use the money to 'compose' a 'hard copy' tool that brings in more architectural clients, i'd pull a Le Corbusier.

Stephen:

I think within the Finale portion of Symphonatic No. 1 there's some potentional in the Kurt Vonnegut qoute. The subplot is actually more important, because with each quote a whole body of work comes into play.

I've been working on a poem that might qualify for Symphonatic No. 2, it's considerably simpler...have you ever wondered what the hallway looked like in the song "The End" by The Doors...I found that the fusion of a T.S. Eliot poem about Betrand Russel's visit to the states kind of gave me an image...but to have a Qoudam result would be sweet...

t a m m u z
Apr 24, 07 4:49 pm

there is a sense of the contradictory in advertising agitation, making a neat clearance for it and then placing billboards that beckon as much towards the polite manufacturing of ideas that, in the sequential flow of interests, whims and deliberately random unarchitectural tangents ("see how cleverly trivial we are and yet, herein the architectural anchor") with no common ground other than to 'agitate' are rendered implicitly bland in the momentary, monthly,
collaged ensemble,as it does to their stated intention to agitate and "deterritorialize". endowing agitation, subversion, with self centred solipsism renders the golem more real than its maker, the agitation more real, more significant, much more of a currency, than the reason for agitation and its consequence.

the culture/s of discourse that unite/s the in-bold participants, the plateau on which they operate is just so characteristic that it can hardly not be territory much less be aterritory. its nothing less than the highbrow mainstream and thats fine. though it might seem like a proliferation of words (expressing oneself, or in this case magazine-self) is a good thing in an open society, i would say that the in-bold discussion above was completely unnecessary. a magazine amongst other magazines, in its logical extreme, all magazines can be compiled in one, or in the other logical extreme, all magazines are composites of variant pages, topics and issues that repel each other; or must every other architectural magazine allude to the self-acknowledgement of a manifesto, a centralizing voice, or exactly the opposite of that (that is to say, yet another manifesto)

what is agitation and why? it seems to me that its nothing less than to alleviate intellectual boredom. thats fine, but must we accompany that with the sombre tones of necessity, determinism and the unpoken, but strongly hinted at, good of humankind/architectural thery/practice...etc





Sir Arthur Braagadocio
Apr 24, 07 4:59 pm

"America is stuck with...well read people who don't know how to design." - Peter Cook

speaking of famous - I'm sure more New Yorkers know Peter Cook the Long Island architect who cheated on Christi Brinkley with an underage girl than the Peter Cook you interviewed.

Apr 24, 07 5:18 pm

I'm pretty sure I would occasionally buy an e-version (pdf?) of Volume.

I just stopped buying new books once I saw that a year or so later I just sold them on ebay. I can read Volume at the local university library, but I only get there once a month or so, and I don't stay there that long, and you can't borrow journals.

But you know what I might do? I'll take my digital camera to the library and "photocopy" all the issues and then I can read Volume on my computer.


I'm serious!

Apr 25, 07 10:24 am

metamechanic, a riff off the Finale might well be forthcoming, but this thread doesn't seem the place to pursue it. Was wondering if a 'Symphonatic' thread might be worthwhile, where all the various quotations and connections offer fodder for discussion and riffs. Who knows?

The territory/deterritory/reterritory discussion was/is also stimulating--vectors to perpetual motion to football with rednecks. The Vonnegut quotation in the Finale seems somehow germane. Plus, throw scripting and prescripting into the mix. Again, who knows?

Is "Repeat ad infinitum" the way to go?

=====

"a 'hard copy' tool that brings in more architectural clients" -- Was Le Corbusier subliminally advertising? Did the publication of SMLXL coinciding with an exhibit at MoMA bring Koolhaas/OMA more clients? I'll say probably and probably.

(I assume) clients look for someone they can trust, and they probably do that by seeing what architects are already trusted.

But your answer is viable, nonetheless. Just also be aware that the architectural field is repleat with (subliminal) copy-cats.

The client asks:
Are you an architectural brand or are you an architectural knockoff?

The architect responds:
That depends, are you a brand client or are you a knockoff client?

How many clients do you think I'd attract with "hardcopy" entitled Volume and Congestion?

French
Apr 28, 07 11:12 am

It's difficult to enter the discution at this point, but I'd say that th "repeat ad infinitum is probably not the way to go.
The problem of this phrase is that the problable purpose of Volume is not to look at things to use them as a retroactive manifesto the way koolhas advocated it with Delirious New York but to raise awareness on the way cities are being built as events not adressed by architects, in a teorethical (probable spelling mistake) nor professional point of view.
The way one can started a practice: a friend's brother is a finance concellor for wealthy people that makes lots of money and suddenly have to pay enormous taxes: he helps them pay less by apropriatly investing their money.
So he knows a lot of very wealthy people; he offers his borther to work for one of his client 's friend and he would get to build this city built by investor, while still keeping the necessary distance with them.
That's a possible solution for everyone, but it's mostly based on chance...
I'll theorize it once I figure out how it turns out (example based on real facts)...
Sorry for bad spelling and grammar, I don't participate to this forum as often as I used to...

squaresquared
Apr 28, 07 7:32 pm

My main worry is that publications like Volume deepen the crevasse between theory and practice.

French
Apr 29, 07 7:36 am

there has to be a distance between theory and practice though.
Theory and criticism are not there to be directly aplicable in practice, but to define the discipline in a different and parallel way.
Practice and theory never merge completely, but they can "feed" each other with common directions.
I think that is the purpose of this magazine.
I actually haven't read it, so I can only give my opinion from this discussion; but I've read others theoritical US publications, and I always find them interesting. We're lucky that the US have this kind of magazine, because they are probably the only ones in the world; here the only thing left are magazine talking about built projects, and nobody has find the energy to keep on publishing theoretical magazine, probably because our education system can't afford to support such big budget while US school have a lot more monzy to spend on that, which is a good thing.

dithyramben
Apr 30, 07 11:43 am

squaresquared- what do you mean exactly by 'theory and practice'?
what's this supposed crevasse?
how do publications like Volume operate within it, as you suggest?
is Volume a 'theoretical' publication?

i tend to agree with French, that the two are entangled and can't be discussed in a 'pure' form, and i would guess that is also Volume's position. it seems that only a very limited idea of 'practice' would exclude writing, thinking, arguing about architecture.

but what were you suggesting?

won and done williams
May 2, 07 9:47 am

"We're lucky that the US have this kind of magazine, because they are probably the only ones in the world; here the only thing left are magazine talking about built projects."

very interesting, french. literary theory was brought to the u.s. architectural scene post-1968 from europe, prodominently france. it's funny how it still has hold (in an evolved/bastardized form) in the u.s., while europe has moved on. (or was it ever adopted in europe? while eisenman and crew were grappling with theory, european architects were more engaged with issues of construction.) i'm not sure if the americans are pushing critical thought or simply behind the eight ball.

French
May 2, 07 12:45 pm

I don't think being "avant garde" or behind makes much sense nowadyas. Asking question is always good. Asking them from the distance given by theory doesn't solve much problem, but it widens the perspective and that's good imho.
The fact is, the magazines in Frnace for instance, just give photographs of built projects, or competiton held, without any critical position toward the architectur behind designed.
There was even recently one of this magazines that translated an article of Oroussof about the Denver rpoject of Libeskind that was almost too critical to be written by a french critic.
I don't think it's good. Maybe the architectural scene is in an ok shape in Europe (not particularly in France though) but the critical scene is inexistent and I think it's wrong.

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