In woodframe construction trusses are usually less expensive than a stick-built roof. They use less material, span longer distances than is easily doable with joists and rafters (which also saves in that you don't need as many - if any - intermediate load-bearing walls), and are lighter in weight. A drawback of course is the loss of occupiable attic space.

I don't see how fake trusses would result in any savings - essentially you'd be creating a conventional roof and then adding in the expense of the materials for the fakes - plus the added structure to support their weight, and the labor to apply the fakes....

why would you use 'fake trusses'???

What is a fake truss???

Are you planning on having and exposed structure, or will everything be covered in gyp board???

Is the house modern, traditional???

What are the approximate sizes of these trusses??? TJI's are probably a cheaper alternative if they wont be exposed (if you have a flat or slightly raked roof)

fake trusses are much too expensive, i suggest using imaginary trusses instead. check out these pictured below:























now isn't that worth the savings?

oooh. pretty, puddles. there's your answer, tempdrive.

What the hell they teaching you where you go to school? Trusses can be used in many ways, and 90% of those ways are not fake. It is your job to get creative....and oh ya do look at the Truss Shop Drawings...and remember the hold downs so your roof isn't lifting off the ground....and remember the guy designing the trusses doesn't give a crap about wind uplift and wind shear. Damn they sound so simple those fake trusses. Think I will put some up in my backyard this weekend for my tomato plants next summer.

just use the fake truss it goes along with the idea of the cookie cutter home - vynil siding to look like wood - viynl soffits to looklike bead board - etc - you get the point

I don't know if you would actually save money.

I assume you mean you would use a load-bearing ridge and that the rafters would hang off and then you would "hang" some wood beams or something inside to give the "truss" look?

that is certainly easier than doing some crazy timber framing and don't forget that if you wanna really timber frame you'll need to get some specialised labor cus' most carpenters don't know the first thing about that sort of framing.

BUT - you might look into some of the timber framing companies - they might have some cheap service where they'll set up the three post/beam/truss sections and leave you to do the rest. I've only built one and that was sort of how we did it.

But really. Why do anything fake. There must be some way to make something cheap that gives a similar effect while actually doing the structural work. No?

-e

i suggest finding a new client. this dicussion will get a chapter dedicated in the "round windows and laundry chutes" book. if you want to see cookie-cutter timber framing take a look at
link
hell, while you are at it make sure to spec out double rows of cedar shakes on the roof - it will give it that "rustic" look. christ, i just puked in my mouth.

16 on center......... regardless what specs say for centers..... plywood was designed for 12-16 centers and not 24..... thats why you see roof sags in cookie cutters......

just do some moderist beam construction and say they can add a roof terrance in the future.......

my aunt wants me to design them a capcod..... wtf..... i said i could do a set of builder dwgs and they can spec out the rest...... gotta keep the distance......

keep family and work separate unless u r in the mob


?

Fake trusses? Sounds like a project at risk of being showcased in...the dimpled rind of remorselessness discussion.

I think the question that any young, upstanding architect should ask themselves in a design dilemma such as this..."What would Holl do?"

Why don't you just build them a fake house?

Give them what they want and move on to the next project.
I'm doing exactly that same thing today.
It's niaive to think that every client wants something novel or 'honest'. Most are not able to differentiate, and of those that do, few are willing to pay for the effort to achieve it.
Considering that this is family, do you really want to blow them off toward a builder/designer that will make a quick buck and care even less than they want you to?
Save the effort for a client that cares about it or you won't be able to sustain it.

(note that the tome and content above is quite conceivably an efforts to rationalize my own choices on similar projects)

'rents are the least deserving of our potential clients. they just don't understand!!!!!

boy. these necters really take the word "fake" seriously.

heres my advice:

use the fake trusses. then, when someone comes in and looks up and says - "wow, nice trusses", you snicker to yourself and smile sheepishly. your dirty little secret- you sly devil you.

that way- if its regarded to as an inside little joke. (and i mean REALLY inside), you could convince yourself that you dont have to heed the moral obligation that architects have to not reproduce or mimic anything i.e. "fake".

THERE IS NO MORAL OBLIGATION TO BE AUTHENTIC

correction: to some, yes - there is.

as authentic as one would believe they could be

freq_, i'd say we have an ethical obligation to try to educate our clients as to why certain choices are better than others, for reasons beyond the initial cost.

Otherwise it's like a doctor not even bothering to tell his patient to stop smoking.

That said, yes, we need to make a living doing this, so one's decisions as to where to draw the line between "I need this job" and "I can't live with myself if I build that" are entirely personal.

I Would take that Architectural Stamp and stamp every fake truss just for good measure. That way the client will feel like they have a "tempdrive original"

I hear you, I really do. But is authentic always better than inauthentic?
For example, everyone can picture in their mind their least favourite modernist / brutalist building from the 50's / 60's / 70's. These are pretty honest about the use of materials. Are they better than a really well-crafted building that is less authentic in it's use of materials, etc.? Perhaps in the sense that they embody a more 'pure' idea, but functionally, visually?

I try to give a client what they are after, peppered with my own taste.

Case in point - I have a client who IS interested in design, and wants something they can't think up themselves. I have been working with them for a few months now, and it is excruciating, and exhilerating, coming up with something novel.
On the other hand, I have another client I have been working with for over a year, and they simply want what they want. It's relatively easy desiging for them, since they're after an 'aesthetic' instead of an 'idea'. Do I propose solutions that lean toward the 'authentic'? Sure. Do I willfully ignore their expressed wishes? Not a chance.

In short - education is good - ego-mania - not so good

Agreed, freq_: never willfully ignore a client's expressed wish. That's suicide.

I guess even though authentic is one of my favorite words I can't even really define what it is. But this discussion presents a good opportunity for me to post THIS:



This is the project on the cover of the Arch Record Record Interiors issue, currently on my desk. I am madly, madly in love with that guardrail: it's just a thick sheet of clear vinyl. It's such a beautiful, simple idea: I look at it and feel both thrilled at how fun our line of work can be and simultaneously paralyzed with jealousy that I didn't think of it!

I'd say that's an "authentic" use of vinyl. But maybe some would say vinyl can't be authentic in the first place?

if vinyl is being vinyl, and not trying to convince you that it's something else...well, that's just honest.

authentic: not counterfeit or copied

Right AP - it's not vinyl masquerading as wood clapboard. This is beautiful vinyl.

Liberty, I do enjoy your posts.

Aw, freq - that's so sweet! Thank you!

And also I agree that yes the "authentic" use of brutalist concrete can be quite unfriendly in actual encounters - and I say this as a concrete-lover!

what a blast of surrealism

it's so long! if you use fake trusses we will revoke your posting privileges

Fake Trusses - Scissors trusses at 24" o.c. with fake trusses below at 5'? o.c. is the cheapest way to go. The fake trusses can be 1x6's at the (sheetrock) ceiling and 6x6's at the (real) collar tie - so not much extra wood there. Drawback is that the interior slope is only half the exterior - and can look like crap if anyone is given the chance to visually reconcile the two.
Real trusses - Unless you use a sips system, real trusses will probably be more costly and use more wood than fake ones, because you'll have to overframe what can be seen by the architectural purist as a 'fake' cavity for insulation / blocking for ceiling & roof anyway. But it will look better.

So be honest with your parents (and yourself) - they will cost more than, be just as or more destructive as, and just as dishonest as the fake trusses - - - but the real ones will look better, and that is the one and only reason why they should do it.

Their child is an architect for Christs sake!

my old girlfriend faked it