Hey, Archinect. So, I don't post much but I read the forums a lot. I respect (some of) y'all's opinions :) and i know there's a pretty wide spectrum of people in the profession on here, so I was hoping I might be able to ask for a little advice.
First off - I know that I'm incredibly fortunate to have this as my biggest career problem right now - I wish all of you guys out there looking for jobs the best of luck.
So, I recently graduated with my M.Arch. I was fortunate enough to get an internship during school at one of the best firms in San Antonio - they do award winning work and they're branching out into international work. I've continued to work there as an hourly intern since graduation. Recently, I told them I would be doing a job search for a position with salary and full benefits and that I'd of course consider an offer from them. After a month of deliberation and figuring out if they could do it, they recently made an offer.
Now, long story short, I ended up with two other offers after my search.
One from another place in town that does decent work, but they were offering less $$ and are now out of the running.
The other is from a firm in Austin offering more $$ than the place I'm at now. They specialize in schools and have done a few performing arts centers as well. Good stuff, but not award winning.
So here's the deal - I like San Antonio. I really like Austin. Basically it's probably going to come down to this: firm that does more interesting work and might even have some int'l opportunity for a little less $$, or firm in a city I really like that currently does more mundane stuff but wants to eventually branch out and do the more interesting projects...for a little more $$. Both are mid-size firms of about 50. Both offers are mid/low 40k. I'm 30 - just married. I'm 1/2 way through IDP.
There are more aspects that will go into this decision than I'll mention on here, but what I'm asking you guys is this; how much better do you think it would be for me professionally to get a couple years experience at the more high design firm over the Austin firm, and is it worth taking a little less $$?
I know this is hard without specifics - it's hard with specifics! But, yeah - any general advice you guys have would be appreciated. Thx.
A firm's ambitions for where it wants the practice to go don't necessarily mean that much since achieving those aspirations can be a matter of luck or otherwise outside of the principals control. Particularly in these fascinating economic times I'd be more interested in the practice which is already doing the work that you like.
Additionally, it sounds like you have already developed a rapport with your current firm. Unless you know folks in the Austin place, that would put another checkmark in the San Antonio firm. Chemistry is important and often difficult to assess until you've spent some time in the office working with other folks on your team and understanding the heirarchy.
Is there a cost of living difference between the two cities?
San Antonio makes sense. Since you have interned there I'm sure it will be much easier to negotiate a raise in the future? Do you see where I'm coming from? I've never been to either city but if the work is what you're interested in heavily consider that part of the deal. A "little bit more" money is meaningless if it involves many unknowns. Keep in touch with the firms giving you the offers in case something happens. Award winning work sounds great, why turn your back to it?
It can be very hard to move beyond "young student intern" status in the eyes of principals in a firm if that is where you started out, even after you move up to PM and get licensed. So bear that in mind.
I would guess that some of the personal specifics you don't want to explain have to do with your wife and what work she would do in whichever city you end up in. If those concerns exist I urge you to take them seriously.
I am thinking along the lines of rza. It sounds like the difference in salary is pretty small. If I were in your shoes, I would stick with what you got. Award winning work is pretty exciting stuff to work on. And who knows, maybe after a year or two they will move you up the food chain.... and If they don't? you will still have some amazing work to put in your portfolio to help land that next big fish!
I vote stay. (plus.. I hate moving with a passion)
both options seem promising. i'd probably lean toward what others above are suggesting - sticking where you are, where you've already made relationships - but, at 30, testing different situations can expand your options as well.
as donna said, your wife's prospects should be considered, as should the costs and disruption of moving.
keep the connection with the austin firm. it's always good to know that there is someone else out there who would appreciate what you can do. let them know that it was a difficult decision and that you might like to talk to them again in the future.
sounds like you're in a good position. congratulations!
I think the real answer lies in the information you are not telling us, i.e. I read a lot more into "30 and just married" than I do good firm versus okay firm and a few thousand dollars difference between the two. My advice take the job closest to yours or your wife's family. A reliable babysitter means a hell of a lot more than a shelf full of AIA awards.
Guys - thanks for the advice. Yep, the wife's work situation def. plays a part - it leans more in the direction of more opportunity for what she does in Austin. We're both not from Texas so neither is really better for family reasons...about the same number of friends in both cities. Tough one - but gotta make a decision tonight, though. Thanks again
I have to think that contributing to and "owning" a more interesting project is worth way more than few extra K's a year. Plus the fact every work day will be more interesting and more fun helps make the job less job-like. Also, the more interesting projects are just that -- more interesting, and will definitely help your Career (capital C).
But hey, ask your wife and stuff, things, words...
sorry - haven't read the rest of the responses - but my initial answer is:
take the offer # from the Austin firm to your current San Antonio firm and tell them you are having a rough choice, and although you love working with them you are considering leaving them as you have a young family to support & the money makes a difference.
If they value you (and it certainly sounds like they do!!!) they will need to make an adjustment upward - thus easily making your choice for you, as they do better work anyway.
Remember, the offer you see is generally a low-mid point of a potential range that the firm landed at after evaluating both your value and their finances. For all you know, this is just the "oomph" they need simply to bump you up to a higher point within a range they were already (unbeknownst to you) considering.
And, if they point-blank refuse, then fine, take the Austin gig.
But generally, I would be predisposed to the S.A. firm. More interesting work has been - to me, at least - MUCH more rewarding in the whole-life schema than more money (unless it is SO much more money that you can bank up a fat reserve and then quit and go out on your own, if that is your goal). But you should try to get both interesting work AND money, first.
Also, moving cities might actually suck up the extra cash anyway. Isn't the Austin rental market whacked? I thought I heard that.
I am on board with the majority of these opinions and seem to think SA sounds like the better plan. Consider a couple things as well...
-working at an office with design you admire is not only more pleasurable in the short term, but a much better learning experience in the long term. Remember that you only REALLY start learning once your working... consider the SA monetary short comings a long term investment in both your resume and your design abilities... both will become more valuable as time goes on and you climb the ladder.
-id very much echo Donna's point from before that it can be very difficult to overcome the "young intern" label once you've become full time. I dont think id list it as a reason to choose Austin, but id keep it in mind, and understand that upon starting full time, you will have to work doubly hard to shift an existing perception. I say it in every "im about to start working full time" thread... but volunteer... volunteer... volunteer... its the best way to build trust with your principles (in my short experience at least...)
Oct 10, 11 6:35 pm ·
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Career/Job offer advice needed asap
Hey, Archinect. So, I don't post much but I read the forums a lot. I respect (some of) y'all's opinions :) and i know there's a pretty wide spectrum of people in the profession on here, so I was hoping I might be able to ask for a little advice.
First off - I know that I'm incredibly fortunate to have this as my biggest career problem right now - I wish all of you guys out there looking for jobs the best of luck.
So, I recently graduated with my M.Arch. I was fortunate enough to get an internship during school at one of the best firms in San Antonio - they do award winning work and they're branching out into international work. I've continued to work there as an hourly intern since graduation. Recently, I told them I would be doing a job search for a position with salary and full benefits and that I'd of course consider an offer from them. After a month of deliberation and figuring out if they could do it, they recently made an offer.
Now, long story short, I ended up with two other offers after my search.
One from another place in town that does decent work, but they were offering less $$ and are now out of the running.
The other is from a firm in Austin offering more $$ than the place I'm at now. They specialize in schools and have done a few performing arts centers as well. Good stuff, but not award winning.
So here's the deal - I like San Antonio. I really like Austin. Basically it's probably going to come down to this: firm that does more interesting work and might even have some int'l opportunity for a little less $$, or firm in a city I really like that currently does more mundane stuff but wants to eventually branch out and do the more interesting projects...for a little more $$. Both are mid-size firms of about 50. Both offers are mid/low 40k. I'm 30 - just married. I'm 1/2 way through IDP.
There are more aspects that will go into this decision than I'll mention on here, but what I'm asking you guys is this; how much better do you think it would be for me professionally to get a couple years experience at the more high design firm over the Austin firm, and is it worth taking a little less $$?
I know this is hard without specifics - it's hard with specifics! But, yeah - any general advice you guys have would be appreciated. Thx.
A firm's ambitions for where it wants the practice to go don't necessarily mean that much since achieving those aspirations can be a matter of luck or otherwise outside of the principals control. Particularly in these fascinating economic times I'd be more interested in the practice which is already doing the work that you like.
Additionally, it sounds like you have already developed a rapport with your current firm. Unless you know folks in the Austin place, that would put another checkmark in the San Antonio firm. Chemistry is important and often difficult to assess until you've spent some time in the office working with other folks on your team and understanding the heirarchy.
Is there a cost of living difference between the two cities?
San Antonio makes sense. Since you have interned there I'm sure it will be much easier to negotiate a raise in the future? Do you see where I'm coming from? I've never been to either city but if the work is what you're interested in heavily consider that part of the deal. A "little bit more" money is meaningless if it involves many unknowns. Keep in touch with the firms giving you the offers in case something happens. Award winning work sounds great, why turn your back to it?
Janosh's advice is good. As is rza's.
It can be very hard to move beyond "young student intern" status in the eyes of principals in a firm if that is where you started out, even after you move up to PM and get licensed. So bear that in mind.
I would guess that some of the personal specifics you don't want to explain have to do with your wife and what work she would do in whichever city you end up in. If those concerns exist I urge you to take them seriously.
I am thinking along the lines of rza. It sounds like the difference in salary is pretty small. If I were in your shoes, I would stick with what you got. Award winning work is pretty exciting stuff to work on. And who knows, maybe after a year or two they will move you up the food chain.... and If they don't? you will still have some amazing work to put in your portfolio to help land that next big fish!
I vote stay. (plus.. I hate moving with a passion)
Just my 2 cents.. spend it as you'd like!
both options seem promising. i'd probably lean toward what others above are suggesting - sticking where you are, where you've already made relationships - but, at 30, testing different situations can expand your options as well.
as donna said, your wife's prospects should be considered, as should the costs and disruption of moving.
keep the connection with the austin firm. it's always good to know that there is someone else out there who would appreciate what you can do. let them know that it was a difficult decision and that you might like to talk to them again in the future.
sounds like you're in a good position. congratulations!
I think the real answer lies in the information you are not telling us, i.e. I read a lot more into "30 and just married" than I do good firm versus okay firm and a few thousand dollars difference between the two. My advice take the job closest to yours or your wife's family. A reliable babysitter means a hell of a lot more than a shelf full of AIA awards.
Guys - thanks for the advice. Yep, the wife's work situation def. plays a part - it leans more in the direction of more opportunity for what she does in Austin. We're both not from Texas so neither is really better for family reasons...about the same number of friends in both cities. Tough one - but gotta make a decision tonight, though. Thanks again
Let's talk only about the work for a bit.
I have to think that contributing to and "owning" a more interesting project is worth way more than few extra K's a year. Plus the fact every work day will be more interesting and more fun helps make the job less job-like. Also, the more interesting projects are just that -- more interesting, and will definitely help your Career (capital C).
But hey, ask your wife and stuff, things, words...
sorry - haven't read the rest of the responses - but my initial answer is:
take the offer # from the Austin firm to your current San Antonio firm and tell them you are having a rough choice, and although you love working with them you are considering leaving them as you have a young family to support & the money makes a difference.
If they value you (and it certainly sounds like they do!!!) they will need to make an adjustment upward - thus easily making your choice for you, as they do better work anyway.
Remember, the offer you see is generally a low-mid point of a potential range that the firm landed at after evaluating both your value and their finances. For all you know, this is just the "oomph" they need simply to bump you up to a higher point within a range they were already (unbeknownst to you) considering.
And, if they point-blank refuse, then fine, take the Austin gig.
But generally, I would be predisposed to the S.A. firm. More interesting work has been - to me, at least - MUCH more rewarding in the whole-life schema than more money (unless it is SO much more money that you can bank up a fat reserve and then quit and go out on your own, if that is your goal). But you should try to get both interesting work AND money, first.
Also, moving cities might actually suck up the extra cash anyway. Isn't the Austin rental market whacked? I thought I heard that.
I am on board with the majority of these opinions and seem to think SA sounds like the better plan. Consider a couple things as well...
-working at an office with design you admire is not only more pleasurable in the short term, but a much better learning experience in the long term. Remember that you only REALLY start learning once your working... consider the SA monetary short comings a long term investment in both your resume and your design abilities... both will become more valuable as time goes on and you climb the ladder.
-id very much echo Donna's point from before that it can be very difficult to overcome the "young intern" label once you've become full time. I dont think id list it as a reason to choose Austin, but id keep it in mind, and understand that upon starting full time, you will have to work doubly hard to shift an existing perception. I say it in every "im about to start working full time" thread... but volunteer... volunteer... volunteer... its the best way to build trust with your principles (in my short experience at least...)
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