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Company looking for software / hardware combo as working tools for future Architect Employee

Greg Pereira

So here's the deal. We got nothing... it's a minefield of epic proportions

Were in the process of creating a company in construction. Were very innovative and and came up with the interesting concept of hiring an architect. We discovered that after creating various patents and unusual other stuff it must have been a fluke for it seems were not intelligent enough to decide what software / hardware  to buy for a future employee/ colleague.

we thought, wacom 27" plus an sli machine plus CAD software... what can go wrong I hear you ask. Well I'm an engineer not an architect, so it seems that i spoke binary language to our first candidate that disappeared into the sunset. Young guy, a couple of years exp that turned gray at the mention of wacom and auto cad ( we don't know what to buy )

Sooo after some reflection, 22 pots of coffee, some Jack and a lot of professional counseling  we decided to ask the question.

what are the tools of the trade for a CREATIVE architect this days?

 
Jun 27, 16 1:19 pm
Non Sequitur

what are the tools of the trade for a CREATIVE architect this days?

...not working for engineers.

Jun 27, 16 1:30 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

i was soooo expecting that ;)

Jun 27, 16 1:33 pm  · 
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tduds

AutoCAD is not a program for design, it's a program for documentation. 

If you want to attract a "creative" designer, shop for creativity first and let them tell you what environment they prefer to work in. Asking about software is putting the cart before the horse.

Jun 27, 16 1:40 pm  · 
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archanonymous

Rhinoceros. 

You will run into some architects who have other preferences for 3D modeling, but I would say the vast majority of "creative" firms are using Rhino in concept and schematic phases. It is also only $900 for a license. Beats the hell out of sketchup and lots of other much more expensive 3d software.

 

For documentation, it will depend on project and employee type - AutoCAD, Revit, ArchiCAD all get the job done. ArchiCAD is my personal favorite, but again - whatever you go with should fit your employee's needs as well as the firm's.

Jun 27, 16 1:47 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

From our standpoint the problem is not to fit the software to a specific person, but to the company.  I kind of assumed there would be a preferred soft tool in use. ( my bad.. engineer type of thinking)

on the hardware side of things I would have assumed most would use a HD wacom as a work tool, then again I was wrong or so it seems.

were doomed...

Jun 27, 16 7:22 pm  · 
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SpatialSojourner

What kind of projects are you planning to have them work on? 

Jun 27, 16 7:35 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

tduds@

we tried that approach and did not really work for us, we had 3 candidates each with a very different idea from the other.

what were looking for is a middle ground solution instead of a specific tailored one that may pose a problem to expand to more people.

we kind hopped we could go out and buy the best solution...how wrong we were...

most have never even worked with anything but a simple mouse let alone with a professional system like wacom,  We went shopping, bough a 27HD wacom, a SLI machine with enough graphic cards to design the next Avatar movie, 3 HD monitors for the workstation a  3d printer for prototyping and a shitload of other stuff... looks great but besides lacking the software, the most interesting comment we had from said architect was " why 4 displays?" really?  are you guys still on the mouse? zooming must be fun...

Jun 27, 16 7:42 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

why don't you have an architect that still draws by hand do the job?

Jun 27, 16 7:45 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@SpatialSojourner can't really elaborate on specifics, from an architecture point of view the projects are very small, so we were kind of hopping to use the said architect to for other "creative" things we got going. new products and other stuff in R&D. 

Jun 27, 16 7:50 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

why don't you have an architect that still draws by hand do the job?

that is how I started developing this company, this days we have moved on to more advanced systems for productivity.

Jun 27, 16 7:52 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

most if not all architects use a mouse when working in a computer. there was a strange phase 20 to 30 years ago where architects experimented with wacom similar products. in the end the mouse won and yes we zoom in and out all day, second nature.....so my suggestion was to get a hand drawing architect and not a young kid who learned everything on a laptop with a mouse.

Jun 27, 16 7:57 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

I see your point, we did consider that, but due to the nature of our business we need to be space age. The problem seems everyone is still stuck on the past... that's so not helping.

you cant really design properly on a single display with a mouse and if you design by hand then there's no 3d printing

then there's the fact that its so much easier to discuss projects on a big screen, especially when you work across different countries and languages.

Jun 27, 16 8:04 pm  · 
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curtkram

It's possible that the most expensive tool is not the best tool.

Get sketchup and a dell.  Keep the other stuff around so you can show your clients how space age you are.

I don't think you can have an architect stamp drawings as an employee.

Jun 27, 16 8:26 pm  · 
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mightyaa

You just need to find the right sort of architect.  We've got some design guys here that would love that system because they'd recognize the potential.  A couple here sketch on surface pro's.  

They are designing with Rhino and their surface pro's just fine, so it does work with stylus and touch...  

Jun 27, 16 8:34 pm  · 
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SpatialSojourner

I'm more drawn to the type of work and role and not really whether they have M6000 Quadros in SLI... Although, I do joke that I'd never work for a firm that didn't have dual screens.  I've passed up firms with every program, a 3D printer, and sweet computers to work for one that at starting had Windows XP and Sketchup 8 (I revamped the firm)

Jun 27, 16 8:39 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@mightyaa I hear you, I know their out there.. somewhere.

We've been looking at Rhino among many others but so many voice negatives about it

I really thought there would be kind of a main current of people working on a spec soft instead of a million different ones

Jun 27, 16 8:43 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

well we do not need an architect to stamp projects, we need a valid member for a team. we need someone that can wok on a concept and bring it to life and defend it tooth and nail.

BUT before we need it we need to set up a system that will integrate with production centers in various countries. That is the headache, its a real fight finding the right tools that will fit our needs and our way of working, next will be the fight to find the "mouser" that can work with it and CREATE "stuff" ( stuff has doors and windows)  that we can sell.

Jun 27, 16 8:54 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

As many people here have said (some in harsher tones than warranted) - it really comes down to the type of work you are doing / want to do. Not to be presumptive, but is there a chance the architect walked out because the work wasnt interesting? just a suggestion. Also, location, future career prospects? 

Regarding the software itself, as a "starter kit", I would suggest the following:

1. Rhino 3d - trial if youd like

2. Sketchup free - for starters

3. Adobe CC suite

4. AutoCAD

5. Revit

6. MS office etc.

We have some guys here that use the Wacom HD too, but mostly in photoshop and illustrator. Most 3d guys here still use the mouse and keyboard (me included).

Hope this helps.

p.s.: If you want me to trade with you a off the shelf Dell with the awesome setup you have, please PM me. (lol)

Jun 27, 16 8:56 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@sameolddoctor

Haa exactly what I was looking for, a well based opinion.

The career prospects we have are actually not bad at all. It's also an interesting "thing " we do. In some instances perhaps a bit daunting for someone not too skilled in Architecture. 

We do small buildings, very unique, we also build things that resemble small villages. (for people not model size ) so we need concept art, renderings, 3d visualization, product specs etc. As we also produce with our own patents we want all in house. Therefore the need for an architect/designer/slave/creative/idea gladiator/coffee brewer/colleague/unconventional/hands on/genius and teammate. (we also wanted female and blonde but my wife slapped me and pointed to the dog house)

It was more to do with the fact that the person that we  employ will have to deal with creating its own mark on our ( i call it product ) thing and at the same time make sure it can integrate with our workflow system. The guy really turned green around the gills when he looked at all those monitors and we told him we were still looking for the right software.

PS. I'm really tempted right now...but you did not offer any M&M's with it so...

Jun 27, 16 9:38 pm  · 
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ArchNyen

Engineer trolling architects. 

Suckers!

Jun 27, 16 10:08 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@ArchNyen

lol dude, would an Engi EVER even think about trolling an archie? nevaaaaaaa

nah, I'm real lost on the software side everyone says a diff thing. besides Engineers only know how to do the REAL WORK were not the creative type looking at the ceiling type of thing searching for grand designs.

PS, you did walk right into that one..

Jun 27, 16 10:26 pm  · 
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curtkram

If you want a creative genius focus on your candidate's brain, and then do whatever you can to enable them.

software doesn't design.  It's a tool used to communicate design.  If you find your genius, they will either create great designs with whatever tools are at hand, or they will expose themselves as mediocre at best.

As a side note, if you tell your creative genius that they should be fetching your coffee and providing you with sad fantasies of blonde girls, that does not enable creativity or success in your institution.

Jun 27, 16 11:12 pm  · 
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You think what we do isn't real work? Go away.
Jun 27, 16 11:53 pm  · 
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gruen
I have no idea what this guy does.
Jun 28, 16 7:31 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

REAL WORK, engineers, hahaha. diagrams are not reality......i think you are really looking for an Industrial designer. They could use Solid Works and get rid of the calculators known as Engineers.

Jun 28, 16 7:45 am  · 
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archiwutm8

bumbum.

Jun 28, 16 8:10 am  · 
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Bench

To clarify: An engineer is bemoaning that architects don't use up-to-date software? Based on a Wacom and four screens?

For real?

Jun 28, 16 8:30 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

and to further clarify architects dropped technology like Wacom 20-30 years ago.

Jun 28, 16 8:36 am  · 
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Bench

I have to ask if you've ever done any precision digital modelling in the past, and if so, how you actually implemented using any kind of touch-screen.

Jun 28, 16 9:23 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

Bench if you are asking me, i have only seen industrial designers work that way on a typical basis.

Jun 28, 16 9:54 am  · 
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Bench

Nope, directed at the OP based on his line of questioning. The comments infer that they have never actually been involved with any type of modelling workflow.

Jun 28, 16 10:05 am  · 
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archanonymous

you need to find a good match for the position before you get software. I shouldn't have to tell you how to hire someone, but you need to look for a good match that either has pre-existing work similar to what you are doing or can demonstrate a wide range of design thinking and implementation that would convince you she is flexible and creative enough to design anything.

 

What are you guys like a pre-fab home company? Lifestyle designers? Automotive designers? 

Where are you located? If you send me a message through my archinect account i might know some people that are into that kind of thing. 

Jun 28, 16 10:43 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

Easy fellows, I was answering @ArchNyen  not starting a Engi/Archie "thing"

"Engineer trolling architects. 

Suckers!"

BUT! ...as an Engineer I can tell you how ineffective it is to work with a mouse, ESPECIALLY IF I AM THE ONE PAYING FOR IT. ( PERIOD )

MY ( and I stress MY ) need, is for an Architect that will work with a wacom tablet of the latest generation plus 3 HD monitors and any of the most modern advancements available on the market. In a market in which YOU complain you're treated like meat are you now complaining that I as an EMPLOYER am wrong in trying to provide someone with the best available tools??

My bad for not buying the off the shelf Dell and cheap mouse and expect someone to give me his best...

Jun 28, 16 11:08 am  · 
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awaiting_deletion

greg you are not listening. those are not the best available tools because NO one uses them.

Jun 28, 16 11:12 am  · 
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mightyaa

lol...  It is the engineer's (and most the construction industry) view of architects.  "Architects make it pretty."  So, he purchased equipment that is more appropriate to graphic artist.  It's not that there aren't those sorts in the architect world, it's that we don't actually work like that.

The main issue is that he bought a raster graphic system; where every pixel counts like a brush stroke.  Architects work in a vector world; two end points.  Hence the mouse won; we just pick start and end of each piece, so we don't need to capture everything in-between.  

Jun 28, 16 11:13 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

@archanonymous  ill send you a pm, were in the middle of relocating from the UK to Germany right now, We decided the Britts were right and we do not want to cramp their style. We were about to finish our production and fabrication unit in the Uk and decided to pack everything into crates bound for Germany, there's a reason the Britts are on an Island.

But we will be based now in Germany and will install smaller operations in France and Norway. were gonna look for a German Architect instead of a UK one as we don't know whats gonna happen with freedom of movement and this way a German will be able to travel to our clients anywhere.

Jun 28, 16 11:20 am  · 
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no_form
I'd say Z-brush over Wacom any day for an architect who is "creative."
Jun 28, 16 11:25 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

@Olaf Design Ninja_

@mightyaa

I heard you both, furthermore I understand fully the concept

ZOOM in Wacom in a thumb/index movement faster then mouse scroll and more practical.

I do not deny that most work like that. My mother was an Architect ;) I learned to write with a Rotring pen and I am 51,

The point being the computer has evolved, the tools as well the technology available is there, I will move with it, you guys are saying what my mom used to say that she could do the same by hand. Yet, she could not.

For my company that will be the way forward. Not forcing anyone, to change, just saying I will MOVE on with the technical advancements available to me.

Jun 28, 16 11:29 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

@no_form

I'd say Z-brush over Wacom any day for an architect who is "creative."

small size tablets, tight fight on big working platforms wacom still comes on top, price is a drag but there you go

Jun 28, 16 11:33 am  · 
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no_form
You may also have trouble hiring someone if this is your opinion of architects

"architect/designer/slave"
Jun 28, 16 11:36 am  · 
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no_form
You insist on Wacom because you own it. But as you've been told. No one uses tablets. A mouse has enable the most creative architects of our time to design buildings.
Jun 28, 16 11:39 am  · 
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archanonymous

You might find someone who can take advantage of the Wacom to do digital sketches or quick hand-renderings (especially if they come from more of an automotive or product design background) but for precision 3D modeling, nothing beats a mouse.

Hell, alot of design now isn't even done graphically, its done with code... all you need for that is a keyboard.

 

Honestly, I'm surprised to hear there are engineers working with Wacoms. My favorite consulting engineer is alot like me... he uses a mouse to draft when necessary but does most of his work with a handful of scripts running through MS Excel and Access DB.  Like most sane people, he prefers to sketch on paper. With a pen. 

Jun 28, 16 11:39 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

@no_form

lol you think I spent 12K in equipment to simply hire a slave?

Off the shelf less then 1k for a workstation with desk and chair included..that is what you buy for a "slave"

Jun 28, 16 11:40 am  · 
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Greg Pereira

whooo we could discuss this to eternity and not come to a conclusion, this debate has been going on since the papyrus was invented, after all they did build the Pyramids without a computer or paper or even a pencil.

I also use paper, quite a lot I have been told. (read too much) but that is not the point. The point being that there are better tools available and that you are looking at this from a different perspective.

From what I see this days, most come out of uni using nothing but a laptop. 

Jun 28, 16 11:48 am  · 
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chigurh

this guys whole rhetoric is wack.

Thinks he can buy a bunch of junky peripherals and some rando software and expect to hire a "creative architect".  Get out of here man.  What is your MO?  You want to hire somebody to produce unique and awesome work for you because you can't do it yourself?  You want to take credit for said work?  

Anybody that has the capacity to produce what you want would never get in the position you are offering.  The best you can hope for is some fresh out of school kid that doesn't know any better and has the sub par skill set to match.  

Your problem is not the tools it is your sketchy demeanor and iffy motive.

My advice:  hire an architect - one that produces the creative work you like and let them design whatever it is that you want to do.

Jun 28, 16 12:00 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@chigurh there's a reason why many architects fail at making money.  I do not have a problem per say, I am the EMPLOYER, I can simply hire a CAD monkey that seem to abound at a dime a dozen. 

Those WILL be the tools. 

 

OK guys, thanks for all the input, I will pm a couple that have offered, for the others thanks for having me. For the other others, have fun.

Jun 28, 16 12:15 pm  · 
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chigurh

Is the reason we don't make money because we have principles and will not work for some patronizing slime ball like you?  Like I said, you will never get anybody above a CAD monkey, I can smell your bullshit from a mile away as I'm sure is the case with any potential candidates you are speaking with.  Good luck you wacom toting fool.

Jun 28, 16 12:20 pm  · 
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Greg Pereira

@chigurh  

FIRST COMMANDMENT OF THE INTERNET !

THOU SHALT NEVER (EVER!) FEED THE TROLL

 

PS. I have 2 teenage daughters, trust me when I say that a little internet troll means nothing.

Jun 28, 16 12:47 pm  · 
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curtkram

it seems everything in your life is telling you that you made a bad decisions with regards to your equipment purchases, but you refuse to listen and for some reason you think the rest of the world will mold itself to your image. that doesn't seem wise.

of course what people on an internet forum say isn't really a good example of reality, but it sounds like you've reached out to a few people in real life who have confirmed what people here are telling you.  before you leave the UK, maybe stop by the AA and they'll reinforce the reality you refuse to accept.  you'll probably have better luck getting your business off the ground if you get your head out of your butt.

Jun 28, 16 1:08 pm  · 
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First, 

There is nothing wrong with the wacom tablets. It is just a tool that some people like to use over typical mouse or trackball.

Jun 28, 16 1:12 pm  · 
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