Archinect
senjohnblutarsky

I was out in 2009.  Unless things have just gone up drastically recently, I brought the average down. 

Feb 9, 16 9:35 am  · 
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shellarchitect

interesting.  I know I made very slightly more than most of my law school friends when we graduated, but they've been getting 10-20k raises every year and now make WAY more than me.

Feb 9, 16 10:14 am  · 
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archiwutm8

Ha, let me go cry into my wallet now.

Feb 9, 16 10:29 am  · 
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Volunteer

I call BS, the latest employment figures show the gain is almost entirely in part-time and low-skilled work, I.e. Starbucks and bartending. Computer science? IBM has just gone through a severe bloodletting as has Hewlett-Packard, and Yahoo is next up. Law schools have seen the light and have reduced the size of their incoming classes and lowered the requirements to get in because applications are way, way down, due to a lack of jobs for recent graduates. Engineering? Over 100,000 people in the petroleum engineering field have been laid off recently. The $100,000 petroleum engineering starting salary is a fond memory. Companies still lobby for increasing H-1B employees in the STEM field and are getting Congress to go along. You can't buy a tenure track faculty position with a PhD because of declining enrolments, especially in the Liberal Arts colleges. 93,000,000 people are not in the work force. Hate to be Debbie Downer. but if you are gainfully employed and keeping body and soul together, be thankful and save what you can.

Feb 9, 16 11:14 am  · 
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bundy

Listen to Volunteer.  Although we went through layoffs late 2015, most of my former employees still earned far more than I did in 2015.  2016 is going to be a bloodbath.  Some areas of the country are firmly gripped by a recession that's spreading outward from the Midwest and great plains industrial and extraction regions fast.  At the top end there's a financial storm raging as well.  The last 2 recessions started almost the exact same way with increased financialization in the face of deteriorating industrial and retail sectors with a tech, oil or mortgage bubble thrown on top.  It wont end well.

Feb 9, 16 11:35 am  · 
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curtkram

that's a pretty screwed up view of the economy volunteer.  you're going to look at yahoo as a bellweather for the economy?  even yahoo doesn't know what yahoo's revenue source is.  the company was done before marissa mayer drove it in into the ground.  oh but we can look at ibm and HP because it's still 1995 right?

i know, let's look at education, since tuition and students loans have been pretty stable and steady for the past 15 years (giver or take).  or oil.  there's a good industry.  stable oil prices for the past few months right?

you're just mad obama fixed the economy.  or at least made a little progress.  4.9% unemployment rate.  oh, but those baby boomers who can't contribute anyway aren't counted in that, along with stay-at-home moms and college kids, so the number is rigged?

of course, you should be grateful if you're employed and you should save what you can anyway.  that's what suze orman would say, and she's probably right.

Feb 9, 16 11:44 am  · 
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Renzo's Piano
That's interesting. I mean, my girlfriend and I graduated from an east coast state school with BAs in Architecture, are working in a city on the west coast and we both make over that average in the article. Maybe it's because of where we are or what, but I didnt think we'd be at that average with neither having an accredited degree.

Shuellmi, hopefully I don't experience that as well. And hopefully going back for my masters in the future will help with obtaining a higher salary.
Feb 9, 16 5:26 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

Tuition has been stable? Obama fixed the economy? Good luck ckf, hopefully that m.arch doesn't cost too much, the license was a big help for me

Feb 9, 16 5:36 pm  · 
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geezertect

These kinds of surveys are always somewhat suspect, but the basic theme rings true:

Jobs with a math orientation almost always pay more than jobs with an art or aesthetic orientation.  That seems to never change.  Moral:  Don't go into the arts unless you have the money thing covered some other way.

Feb 9, 16 6:12 pm  · 
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curtkram

by 'stable' i meant 'sarcastic.'

still, aside from healthcare, tuition, oil, and stocks, things are going fairly well.  it could even be said low oil prices actually help some industries.

Feb 9, 16 7:06 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

fuck salaries, go rogue.

Feb 9, 16 7:17 pm  · 
 · 

obama fixed the economy?

For the 1%, without a doubt. For everyone else, not so much.

Feb 9, 16 7:19 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

actually Miles the 1% fixed the economy. and i mean "fixed" like Las Vegas

Feb 9, 16 7:27 pm  · 
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x-jla

+++Olaf  "fuck salaries go rouge

Feb 9, 16 7:32 pm  · 
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Renzo's Piano
Yeah shuellmi, I'm already dreading the cost. My top choice and dream school is SCI-Arc, and I've already gotten into the two year program. But it's so expensive it's like I'm trying to convince myself not to follow my dream. Plus Michigan isn't much better in terms of cost and that's my second choice. Berkeley would be reasonable, but I'd have to get in to both or either to have that choice. So we'll see.
Feb 9, 16 7:45 pm  · 
 · 
good details

^^Tuition is brutal.  As a dual citizen of the US and Canada, I'm almost positive I'll end up doing my M.Arch somewhere in Canada even if the schools don't excite me as much as say Rice or Cincinatti (even considering the in-state tution you get after the first year at the later).  3 years of tuition at UBC or UofT is on par with 1 year of tuition at a cheaper state school (out of state).  A school like Sci-Arc or Michigan ends up costing 5x the price pretty quickly.  Entering the workforce expecting this type of salary is a lot less daunting with ~$35k of debt vs $70k+.

So I guess to steal the thread a bit, would it be a good decision to go to a school with much cheaper tuition knowing that school is largely what you make of it?  I'm going to make sure I know how to detail and put shit together before I graduate, regardless of it is formally taught at school or not.  It's not like UofT and UBC and bad schools either.

Feb 9, 16 10:20 pm  · 
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Dangermouse

@zenza look into TA and research assistantship opportunities.  Even if your specific school doesn't offer either, often times you can get a position within another department.   I have a friend who has an assistantship position at the library, for example.  

 

I think its sad that starting salaries are averaged at 47k.  I am currently working as an apprentice carpenter and would make 50k pre-tax with benefits if I kept the position for a full year, instead of going to grad school in the fall.  

Feb 9, 16 10:34 pm  · 
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StarchitectAlpha

zenza!! Seriously, I've met 3 people in my 4 years of working who either just took a drafting class or dropped out of school to work. They have no debt, had 5 additional years of work (wages+experience) under their belts and two are becoming licensed and the other already is. Since you end up learning so much of what architects actually do by working screw school! Just read design magazines and read the design textbooks on your own, why spend the equivalent of a mortgage to have someone "teach" purely subjective stuff. It's freakin art, don't be sucked into the illusion of what they are peddling has "value." It really doesn't, and think about it, because we do what people with a drafting degree at ITT tech can do, no wonder its 47k a year. Whereas, to someone who just started working after highschool, topping out at 80k-90k with no diploma and a nice comfortable desk job not working out in the field, thats a rocking career. 

Feb 9, 16 10:42 pm  · 
 · 
good details

Dangermouse: I've thought about that route but the problem is in almost every situation you have to have already commited to a school before you find out about TA or research opportunities  And even then, lots of times there is less supply than demand.  I feel you on the carpenter thing...but that experience will be extremely beneficial both in school and afterwards.  I wouldn't be surprised if it lets you leverage for higher pay...

 

StarchitectAlpha: I'd still like to go for an M.Arch (how are the people you mentioned getting licensed without a degree?) but yeah...I agree with you on the whole art school thing.  I'm hoping to make my M.Arch about solving theoretical studio projects with realistic structural and construction solutions.  That way the 'artistic' side is being exercised but it is simultaneously being informed with the real world and how things actually come together.  Not sure how feasible it will be but I'd really like to try to steer all of my studio crits in that direction so by the time graduation comes around I have a firm grasp of the actual act of building with a cool looking portfolio to boot.

Feb 9, 16 10:58 pm  · 
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StarchitectAlpha

I think if you get enough experience you can get licensed. I'm in California, one of the stricter states, so I'd assume you could do that anywhere. Also, I know all these firms demand intense portfolios but here's what actually gets you ahead. Knowing what you need to put together in a set for a certain project for a contractor to bid accurately. Construction systems ect. Ect. I did that in school, I really focused on technical sustainability stuff but since they don't teach code and putting together a real construction set it doesn't get you ahead. You have to master drafting sets before you can make decisions. Unless of course you are really really good at design in which case disregard what I'm saying ha ha. What seems to be a shortcut though, is working for a contractor or builder. They tend to outsource a lot of drafting and make big decisions themselves. Architects main product is drafting so they keep it in house. Yes people will start saying design is the main product, at most firms construction documents are where you actually get profitable fees.

Feb 10, 16 12:34 am  · 
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Starchitect,

While California maybe stricter in many ways, there are states where the path to licensure is much narrower and therefore higher barrier to entry. Sometimes, too ridiculous.

Keep that in mind. 

Feb 10, 16 5:51 am  · 
 · 
AdrianFGA

@geezertect:

Jobs with a math orientation almost always pay more than jobs with an art or aesthetic orientation.  That seems to never change.  Moral:  Don't go into the arts unless you have the money thing covered some other way.

Architecture is largely a bureaucratic, paper-pushing occupation. It has very little to do with art. 

Feb 10, 16 9:26 pm  · 
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geezertect

^  True.  I should have said "art or aesthetic fantasy".

Feb 10, 16 9:54 pm  · 
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BulgarBlogger

Jobs with a math orientation almost always pay more than jobs with an art or aesthetic orientation

So train operators are so incredibly competent in math?? And since when did Architects not have to be good at math? It seems like all technical expertise has been outsourced to those studying abroad...

Feb 11, 16 10:11 am  · 
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archiwutm8

That's cause we need train operators compared to the number of architecture grads being pushed out without any technical or specialisation.

Feb 11, 16 12:22 pm  · 
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geezertect

I was stating a general rule, not an absolute law of physics.  Obviously, math teachers don't make big bucks but Wall Street lawyers do.  Rock stars make more than civil engineers.  You can always find exceptions, but I think it's a pretty good rule of thumb that, particularly very early in a career, math and science usually trumps art when you're talking about salaries.

Subway operators are government employed and are unionized, two factors which are going to distort the numbers.  Does anyone think that letter carriers would make what are they are making if the post office was a private sector operation?

Feb 11, 16 1:04 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

volunteer, you are wrong.

Feb 11, 16 1:17 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

Why do we keep talking salaries and compensation, when we all came into this profession for the love it ? (lol)

Feb 11, 16 1:19 pm  · 
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geezertect

As any hooker knows, you can't buy love but you sure as hell can rent it.

Feb 11, 16 1:38 pm  · 
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Wilma Buttfit

The ol math vs art diatribe. What about jobs with math AND art? I say double the salary for doing both, at the same time even! :) Math IS art and art is math anyways. Why divide?

Rock stars do math and art at the same time. Maybe we should use that comparison more. 

And I third the rogue notion. 

Feb 11, 16 2:17 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

Most rockstars are broke cuz they dont make it. Kinda like us.

Feb 11, 16 6:02 pm  · 
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Wilma Buttfit

ehh, what's up doc?

Feb 11, 16 7:27 pm  · 
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AdrianFGA

Rock stars do math and art at the same time

To my knowledge the only personality who did (kind of) both is Brian Cox, and he pursued both careers (rock stardomology and particle physics) rather sequentially, not at the same time. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Cox_(physicist)

Feb 12, 16 12:01 pm  · 
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JLC-1

Add to your knowledge Brian May, from queen.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_May

Feb 12, 16 12:50 pm  · 
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zonker

In the Bay Area programmers make $120k+ live in $3800/month(500SF) apts that I design but cant afford to live in

Feb 12, 16 1:00 pm  · 
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archiwutm8

Maybe you should've been a programmer? I'm considering it.

Feb 12, 16 1:01 pm  · 
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zonker

I was a programmer at one time - 

Feb 12, 16 1:28 pm  · 
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zonker

with a new recession a foregone conclusion - I will certainly be looking into it - I cant afford any more 1 year of unemployment anymore like in the last recession

Feb 12, 16 1:39 pm  · 
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geezertect

^ Can't you live solely on the love of the game??  lol

Feb 12, 16 2:58 pm  · 
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Xenakis,

I hear ya. 

Feb 12, 16 3:08 pm  · 
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^ LOL!
Feb 12, 16 3:28 pm  · 
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makingspace
Why do architects not get paid? How about the fact that they undercut each on fees to the point of shame and embarrassment. In turn that leads to employees getting paid as much as a fast food worker.

If you're as good as you claim you are, charge for that. Let the client walk if the don't want to pay. Talk about no confidence.

What other profession rolls over like a dog to get work? I guess escorts do, but they charge more than most architects do per hour. And they can also have a day job, maybe in STEM. Haha
Feb 12, 16 3:41 pm  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

Plenty of work here and lots more just around the corner plus all the shit I'm juggling right now. Not sure why people are complaining, must be localized problems.

Plenty of architects are paid, many quite well. There are just a few vocal ones who either have agreed to shitty terms/salaries or are just not skilled enough to warrant more.

Feb 12, 16 3:48 pm  · 
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JLC-1

same here, "impending doom" would be nice for a break, haven't had a week vacation in 2 years, and going on 3 based on the incoming stack.....

Feb 12, 16 3:50 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

JLC-1, I hear ya. My office just picked up 3 new projects this afternoon. Got no idea how we'll shoe-horn them into our schedules.

Feb 12, 16 3:53 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

funny coincidence - just left a meeting where we were talking about all the work being dumped on us

Feb 12, 16 4:50 pm  · 
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JLC-1

I work for very wealthy and informed individuals and when your clients are pondering whether to remodel for a 3rd time or tear down,  you know there's no global recession in the near future.... maybe after the bern....

Feb 12, 16 5:00 pm  · 
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AdrianFGA

One way to skim through this thread: CS and STEM people are unemployed, architects are mostly well paid & get tons of work, whereas those who don't are a statistical fluke. 

Feb 13, 16 10:51 am  · 
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Medusa

Same here.  We have so much work coming in, we are having to hire more and turn down jobs.  This is in NYC, doing healthcare, S&T and higher ed.

Feb 14, 16 11:06 am  · 
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Dangermouse

there is a global recession coming.  the chinese sovereign fund has burned through nearly 1 trillion in reserves over the past year simply to prop up the yuan.  my wife works in finance for ultra high net worth individuals and capital is flying out of china.   this will affect the USA 

Feb 14, 16 11:53 am  · 
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