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Architect as Master Builder

152
bennyc

I am a NY Architect, with over 16 years experience, most with working for firms, a few years on my own trying to do "Architecture" or something in between Architecture and Construction. 

I do not like the direction or the current state of the Architecture profession, and I am looking for like minded individuals to discuss and collaborate based on the ideas below:

1. Architect as Master Builder - I do not want to just design buildings, but I enjoy building things with my own hands as well and have done a few projects myself.

2. I don't care if you are a Contractor or developer or whatever, there is no way you care more about Architecture or design then an Architect. We are and should be the leaders of this industry and probably are the closest to the owners interest as anyone. 

3. You think design and drawing is just as important as actual work. I think of my profession as a Master Builder, should not be broken down into interiors, design, architecture or whatever else has been turned into a profession lately. We design and draw so that things get built! you are a builder at heart. 


If anyone is out there, and interested in this Ideas, would be happy to discuss and further develop. 

Thank you

 
Nov 25, 15 1:07 pm
Good_Knight

Agreed.  The profession is very very weak right now.  This is due to at least the following:

-the AIA.  E.g. giving in and issuing the consent decrees.  E.g. the promotion of "magazine architecture" aka "architecture porn" instead of serving the 99% of practitioner architects.  Other reasons, there is a long list.

-the schools.  The explanation on this one is easy to delineate.  How deep does anyone care to go?

-the profession itself forcing architects to be groomed to do the duties of drafter.  The current system is setup where architects compete with drafters for implementation of their ideas.  Drafters!  This is like having a profession of medical doctors/ physicians doing the duties/ competing for work with nurses aides wiping up diarrhea off the floors.  Master "Drafter" is not what architects are.

Nov 25, 15 2:23 pm  · 
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DeTwan

But that is all the industry needs...master drafter, just look at every job add. To get beyond that in the field you need to venture out on your own. And as we all know, how often does a person go, "I could really use/need an architect". Moving above the ranks of 'master drafter' is considered success in this industry as it becomes more and more elusive to do so. 

Nov 25, 15 3:31 pm  · 
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x-jla

I agree.  The main reason for the fragmentation is licensing laws that prevent/complicate overlap.  I personally do landscape only, but have worked in a way where I am very involved in the construction phase.  

Nov 25, 15 3:54 pm  · 
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snooker-doodle-dandy

The only problem with being a Master Builder is you have to deal with Sub-Contractors and they are the devil in the room. This week having to haggle with one over changing their schedule, which in turn tosses my project back far enough it will not be done for Christmas.

The hardest thing about building is getting contractors to the job  and keeping them there.

Nov 25, 15 6:02 pm  · 
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3tk

Design-build practice?  There's plenty f that going on.  I'd lay the blame more on insurance and liability laws in this country.  The AIA is doing it's best so that the profession doesn't get de-regulated (which to me is a good thing) and believe me that's a monumental task of late.  I love building things, but do it on my own time on my own side projects (can't so much as touch a hammer on my firm's projects -insurance issue-; which sucks b/c I really don't like making instructional videos for the contractors...).

Maybe it's the firms I've been in, but almost every one of the dozen or so I've been through stay on on projects from planning through post-occupancy - and take pride in the craft (generally having staff with experience in carpentry/masonry/sculpting/landscaping/horticulture/etc)

Nov 25, 15 11:34 pm  · 
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As if regulation protects the public from shitty architects.

Subs are parametric.

Nov 26, 15 12:04 am  · 
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no_form
Did architects ever build? Not joking when I ask that question. Or was it that they were more involved in means and methods directing, coordinating, instructing.
Nov 26, 15 12:16 am  · 
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no_form,

When the word architect was ἀρχιτέκτων

or arkhitekton and also during Roman empire days but that transition to an artist and divorcing the builder role was from the Renaissance period on to the present as a long journey.

However, they could be said to be more or less like a DESIGN-BUILDER or Designer-GC or Architect & General Contractor in one. 

GC's don't necessarily build and in that case, the role of GC is prime contractor/CM. 

Of course, you rarely got to become the architect without some trade skill but often they were jack of the trades but were looking to the holistic vision. While certain people maybe masters of singular trades and they are commissioned to do the trades. Some people focus on a specific trade and master it while some maybe competent in a diverse array of trades and then it is bringing it together holistically in a design vision.

Short answer: Yes but these days.... architects had often divorced the building trade and literally have no experience in the trade. 

I personally believe it is good to have construction trade experience of some form.

There is numerous historical documents and sources that basically supports my main claim points.

Nov 26, 15 12:48 am  · 
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no_form
I'm not sure anyone builds anymore. Or that term is pretty loosely used. Most things are assembled on site or fabricated off site. Kit of parts, modules, bar coding, it's all skilled assembly. Everything is developed to become more simple and easy to do by less and less skilled workers.

Someone can sculpt an epic war procession with Z Brush and then have a robotic arm CNC carve it into marble. Bar code it, ship it to site, use quad copter swarm bots to install it onto bolted metal clips. Done deal.

But design is really to build. Sit in your studio/office and figure out some mind blowing facade and then build scale mock ups or shine lights on materials and splash them with water to see what effects they create to shape a space. Maybe that is a definition of building?
Nov 26, 15 1:18 am  · 
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There are some no_form. The reasons for that is more involved than I would want to say or write. Little long if you got into the nitty gritty. Ecoles Beaux Arts had played a part but not explicitly in the early days but most of our historical records in good detail would be post-renaissance and during the Colonial America times in Europe and how ecoles beaux arts influenced American architecture and architectural practice as we formed the American mini-"Ecoles Beaux Arts" schools in the 19th century and then you had the politics of the 19th century academically trained architects (which formed AIA... both incarnations) vs the architect-builders who often were not formally trained. This politics lead to the architectural licensing laws. In this process, there had been a growing schism between academically trained architects who often had no construction experience and the architect-builders who were trained in the work shops of the trades and then apprentice by previous generations of architects or otherwise auto-didactically trained. There had been view points from the "academics" that the "architect-builders" and builders in general as neanderthals. They held an elitist view from the ivory tower and it got culturally engrained. 

The arts field and art culture can often have an elitist perspective on the world because they view themselves as superior.

I'm simplifying from a number of sources. One source which pointed to a number of sources is (DAMN.... I was looking for the book.... with the author's name so I can provide it.... misplaced so I'll get back on that.). There is some research on this topic so its there. 

I may have somewhat oversimplify but nothing is history is as simple as it is said.

Nov 26, 15 2:11 am  · 
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I may not physically build so much but how something is built is integrated into my design thinking process.

Nov 26, 15 2:12 am  · 
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archiwutm8

Do we actually need anymore architects that "design"? There will always be a limit to how many designers we need the rest will always be chore underlings, so if you complain about not being able to design then do something about it.

Nov 26, 15 2:42 am  · 
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GOT THE TITLE OF THE BOOK: 

Moralism and the Model Home: Domestic Architecture and Cultural Conflict in Chicago, 1873-1913. 1980 (1985 paperback) University of Chicago Press. ISBN 978-0-226-90835-9

  • Chicago residential architectural history in the context of competing economic and cultural forces during the pivotal years 1873-1913.

Author Gwendolyn Wright

The source is not the only singular source reference. We aren't going to find very much written records of the AIA in those times because of simple lack of record keeping... record destruction, and records in archives that are not inventoried or otherwise in any form available to be accessed in any simple means.

However, there is a certain amount of discussion on the topic but there was certainly politics between the "academically trained architects" (as a pattern... there are individual architects who were all over the place but political trends) and the non-academically trained. 

The focal point and centricity of practice. 

Nov 28, 15 12:25 am  · 
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go do it

I don't know bennyc I must be an anomaly because I care just as much about the design as the architect and sometimes I think that some architects that I have worked with I have cared more.  I have on many occasions been told to remedy an issue as I see fit and using my best judgment. Maybe they just trust me I don't know.

I should go to school to be a real architect but I don't want to take a pay cut!!

I kid I kid...kind of

Nov 29, 15 12:15 pm  · 
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whistler

I have designed and built several of my own homes, hired trades and contractors,  Its stressful but also the best experience you'll ever have as an architect.  Balancing budget demands, client needs ( okay what my wife and kids want too ) and reasonable goals as defined by you is a great experience that all architects need to do to have any empathy with theirs clients. It is and always will be a hugely time consuming process including shovelling snow off my roof for a month straight while we had an epic early winter.  You have to be prepared to roll with the issues on a daily basis and be creative all day long.  Working with talented trades people is a total treat and really gives you a lot of insight into the best way to execute a detailed design.  But best of all when we went to sell the home we were well rewarded for all our work. The sum of all the effort was that our design and general home layout was very much appreciated and the local real estate market paid a premium for the home.  

It's the reason I keep doing it every five years or so as our family circumstance changes and I feel that their is a need in the market place that isn't being delivered by others.  It makes all the other difficult projects much more tolerable.

Nov 30, 15 12:20 am  · 
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bennyc

Go do it - yes you are anomaly and I don't mean to say all architects are better then all contractors. What I mean is, there is something wrong in the system, whether education or professional practice where the architect is at the bottom of food chain, but responsibility and professional liability is at the top.

And I blame Architects for this. We have let go the profession of a master builder, of a craft for what they call designers/architects now. 

Nov 30, 15 8:20 am  · 
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whistler

Additionally, some of the best work regionally in my opinion have come from small scale design-build firms.  This is where you get to see a great balance of modern design skills with thoughtful and well considered construction techniques.  I personally know what is behind every wall, why its there, how it was constructed and the effort that went into building it.  It would be nice to see Architects try to take that to the next level beyond outbuildings, homes and cottages.

Nov 30, 15 12:52 pm  · 
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davvid

The most dysfunctional and least-profitable type of practice I have ever worked in was design-build. My experience has been that this particular genre attracts a "master"-mindset/ego but not necessarily a "master"-skillset that can manage everything from design to construction to client needs to employee needs to finance. It leads to a highly idiosyncratic approach that centers around the principal's personality and enables a tendency of micromanagement and missed deadlines. 

Nov 30, 15 4:16 pm  · 
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design-build. My experience has been that this particular genre attracts a "master"-mindset/ego but not necessarily a "master"-skillset

Great generalization, sounds like >98% of the architects I know.

Nov 30, 15 4:47 pm  · 
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davvid

Miles,

I'm just speaking based on my personal experience and the experience of close friends who have worked in other design-build firms. The ability to collaborate and delegate responsibility is extremely important. Recognizing one's own limitations and being able to reach out to others for help is something I've seen in the best offices I've worked in. 

Nov 30, 15 5:04 pm  · 
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chigurh

I don't understand why people bitch so much about drafting - you don't think drafting is the practice of architecture?  If you do it and you are aware and engage you learn to become an architect - never worked in a setting where draftsman wasn't an end for somebody with half a brain and an ounce of ambition to move forward in the profession.  

Nov 30, 15 6:13 pm  · 
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situationist

Someone can sculpt an epic war procession with Z Brush and then have a robotic arm CNC carve it into marble. Bar code it, ship it to site, use quad copter swarm bots to install it onto bolted metal clips. Done deal.  

 

 

seriously, though - why don't we see more of this?  this would be kind of awesome.

Nov 30, 15 8:29 pm  · 
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no_form

situationist- haha, actually it would be pretty awesome.  and it's indicative of what it means to build now.  i'd like to know more about the relationship between analogue and digital.  

Nov 30, 15 8:34 pm  · 
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Because, situationist, you can't legally use quadcopters for commercial activities yet.... something to do with FAA).... okay.... without a very expensive experimental pilot license which requires a significant full fledge pilot license and FAA hasn't yet completed the process of implementing new regulations on small and micro UAV license. At least the last I checked. Even if they just approved it, there is still going to be some lag time in implementation.

Even then, when you have a marble package load, you can easily exceed the max weight load allowed under such license and regulations. 

I can see it used for photographic work for example. Maybe a possible 3d laser scan implementation.

Nov 30, 15 8:50 pm  · 
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no_form

balkins, if you need to take a dump, do so in a toilet.  this is not a toilet.  spare us the FAA legalese, regulations, blah blah blah.  

you're so scared to do anything and you subject the rest of us to it with your obtuse copy paste text on laws, regulations, etc that you have no understanding of.  guess what?  some of us are ok with taking risks and figure out how to do things on the fly and pay people to help us get shit done.  

let me guess you have 20-30 years of formal/informal education based on a free call to a personal injury attorney you saw on a billboard.  

Nov 30, 15 9:14 pm  · 
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no_form,

Are you a law abiding citizen? Yes or No.

Do you like to donating $10,000 to the FAA?

http://www.personal-drones.net/trappy-and-the-faa-fine-for-flying-over-the-university-of-virginia/

 

Some things to consider:

http://uavcoach.com/drone-certification/

Nov 30, 15 9:42 pm  · 
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no_form
"Do you like to donating..." I like good grammar.

Get a job. Thanks for taking a dump on this thread too.
Nov 30, 15 10:09 pm  · 
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Regarding drones in construction - when drones become self-aware and form a union we'll see them doing construction...and send one of themselves back in time to kill John Conner.
Nov 30, 15 10:14 pm  · 
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no_form,

I didn't bring up drone on this topic. The reason it isn't adopted is simply FAA !

First, a drone capable of lifting sheets of marbles is going to be large and heavy and if there is a mechanical failure, this can mean significant bodily harm to anyone below. This is exactly why there is a need for clear regulations to safeguard the public and others before people get seriously injured or killed.

FAA in the news including issuing fines as large as $1.9 MILLION is nothing to laugh off. 

You talk about risk. I do take risks but not stupidly. I have the drone equipment and can get them for doing various kinds of recreational and commercial use (in the future). Do you think I would risk my business to FAA fines needlessly. 

The legal situation behind it is awfully complicated and controversial and FAA has legal authority over commercial aerial use. 

The risk with FAA is not worth the headache. They are waiting until this stuff is settled. They aren't ready to stick their necks out to be getting slammed by FAA. 

UAV use for recreational use is not an issue. We are talking commercial. I am even waiting for them to settle the regulations before bringing UAV use. 

Nov 30, 15 10:34 pm  · 
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no_form
RWCB- not a PBD. Don't care. Get a job.
Nov 30, 15 10:58 pm  · 
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He knows a lot of larger construction firms are already using drones for documentation, right?
Nov 30, 15 11:16 pm  · 
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no_form
He's a PBD. he knows everything. Haha
Nov 30, 15 11:20 pm  · 
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archanonymous

I'll just leave this here.

 

The firm I used to work for as of last Wednesday has been using Skycatch drones for topo surveys and as-built documentations via LiDar and Laser Scanning for over a year (located in the USA.)

Nov 30, 15 11:20 pm  · 
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archanonymous

Professional Building Designer : Architect

Corporeal Technician : Surgeon

Nov 30, 15 11:22 pm  · 
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situationist

i'd like to know more about the relationship between analogue and digital.

 

I am also interested in how we can use digital/robotic tools to enhance "hand" techniques...  However, to use your previous example - there's an art to carving stone... you could make the perfect ZBrush sculpture and develop the perfect tool paths... only to have the whole thing be ruined by unseen veining or imperfections.  It requires an engineered medium.

Nov 30, 15 11:48 pm  · 
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no_form is fake.

Do you know that some of the architects are technically violating law because they are claiming to be licensed as an architect and using a false name and not disclosing their identity and state of licensure when called forth to identify themselves. 

If they are licensed then they are required to use their real name or otherwise disclose it if they are in fact licensed if someone request them to disclose their identity as an architect MUST aid the process of public evaluating if a person is duly licensed. 

If I asked for someone to be an architect on a project and they use their false identity, they violate the licensing law. In Oregon, any business using the word 'architect', 'architecture' or 'architectural' in its name including sole-proprietors using an Assumed Business Name or DBA. Therefore, a pseudonym is a de facto ABN or DBA (even if unregistered with the State of Oregon business registry) when used to represent themselves. Therefore, if you are an architect, you might want to be forthright and candid about your identity if you claim to have a license as an architect and what state.

In Oregon, businesses that uses architect, architecture, or architectural in the business name, are required to register their business with the state architectural licensing boards. Oregon is not unique in that. Any name not properly registered constitutes a violation. This includes any form or representation as a business (which includes sole-proprietorships using an ABN of any kind). 

Many states have such a registry for not only their individual license but as a registered architectural firm. In addition, an architect may not claim they are architects under a unregistered false name and if they were to, they would need to be forthright in disclosing their identity if someone requested. After all, people have the right to be able to check if you are duly licensed.

I see several people here had been violating the letter of the law and the regulations they agreed to abide to by their licensure.

Several people have been violating the law and their refusal to disclose their identity when claiming they are licensed or when asked or requested to provide their identity. They refuse to, in doing so made that violation. 

ENOUGH SAID on this.

Nov 30, 15 11:50 pm  · 
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archanonymous,

That maybe but just because they are doing it doesn't mean it is legal practice.

Nov 30, 15 11:53 pm  · 
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Richard - I'll give you a piece of advice that I once received. Stop worrying about what strangers on an Internet message board have to say about you, and start worrying about what you have to do to get where you want to be.

Ignore me if you're happy with everything surrounding you on here.

Also drones don't necessarily fall under FAA. Aldermen in Chicago are calling for a law banning use in certain spots - but mainly as a response to people freaking out over recreational uses (and people flying them over things they probably shouldn't).
Dec 1, 15 12:03 am  · 
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Josh,

Your point is cool. Since, I'm not happy with all the bantering bullshit, I think your advice is good and one I really need to work on implementing. A habit that needs work. 

Regarding drones and FAA, I was speaking about it broadly as to why we haven't seen certain things yet. I do see value in it, though.

Dec 1, 15 12:15 am  · 
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no_form
Balkins you just got pwnd! And no one cares about your tldr post about Oregon licensing.
Dec 1, 15 1:35 am  · 
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archiwutm8

Balkins stop talking out of your backside, I have been involved with drones for almost three years now, my previous company was about to get me a drone pilot license before I quit, my company right now is using them for surveying purposes. Stop reading shit and the internet and assuming you know shit about anything, same with architecture, surveying, visualisation, augmented reality, business and anything else. You are trying to be a Jack of all trades whilst not having any experience in anything.

Dec 1, 15 2:12 am  · 
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Josh Ming makes a fair point. 

no_form, just so you no, the airways is FAA jurisdiction. It has to do with keeping airways with passenger airlines and other such air crafts safe from intrusion of flight path by your little UAS that can be just enough to cause a Boeing 777 full of 200-300 passengers come crashing to the ground. Think about it. There is regulation and this is also the case being developed for small UAS and micro UAS category unmanned aerial crafts and a regulation for such UAS operators to be responsible and a legal recourse for irresponsibility of stupid operators. 

With no regulation then there is no legal recourse and stupid wins. FAA has that legal responsibility for the safety of the airways and ultimately the people under it.

In the meantime, the an unmanned aircraft is a commercial aircraft and all air crafts used for commercial use falls under their regulation and even model aircraft would fall into its jurisdiction. FAA established a exception for licensing model air crafts for recreational use provide it is safely practice under FAA guidelines like keeping your damn toy out of the airports and flight path of air crafts coming and going from the airports unless you have clearance. This is about safety, first and foremost. People DO die because of stupid actions of other people. If there isn't a legal system for recourse, these stupid people can get away with essentially murder.

There is certainly a wide variety of local authorities that can adopt laws and rules. This is where a certain level of co-jurisdiction exists. Local authority can not negate FAA's rules. There would just be multiple layers of regulations over the same space that has to be followed. 

We are to follow ALL of the following:

Federal laws/regulations

State laws and administrative rules and regulations

County and Municipal laws, rules, ordinances, regulations and enforced policies.

ALL MUST BE FOLLOWED TO BE LAW ABIDING.

Just so you know, I would remind again that if you claim to be an architect under a false name, you either must outright state your real identity and state of licensure and where necessary license number OR you do so at the request of anyone here so they and anyone else may verify the validity of your claim of licensure otherwise, you would be violating licensing regulations by misrepresenting yourself as a licensed architect under a false identity which is not licensed or registered which is a unlawful act under consumer protection laws and professional conduct regulation/rules of the licensing board. 

Dec 1, 15 2:25 am  · 
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archiwutm8,

I'm referring to FAA's own regulation. You have to be licensed under exception 333 rules at this time if you are going to fly a drone. Otherwise, it is essentially unlawful to do so. I referenced it earlier if you pay attention. It's an expensive process. Under the current rules, you HAVE to become an actual pilot licensed by FAA under one of its licenses. It is the rather expensive process that I was talking about several posts back.

Dec 1, 15 2:29 am  · 
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Bloopox

The 10k FAA fine in the Virginia "Trappy" case was thrown out in court, on the basis that the FAA had no authority to levy it.  The FAA is only charged with making recommendations and model regulations - those regulations must be adopted by a separate regulatory body with the authority to enforce them.  At this time only a handful of states have adopted the FAA's regulations regarding drones.  You'll be happy to know that Oregon is one them.  Virginia is not.

Dec 1, 15 11:19 am  · 
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no_form
Balkins, no one cares. Get a job. Or try to actually come up with an original thought about what it is to be a master builder. Have you ever built something? No. So get a job.
Dec 1, 15 11:29 am  · 
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davvid

Jeez Balkins. Why are you writing such long-winded comments?

Dec 1, 15 11:52 am  · 
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wurdan freo

The FAA is approving exemptions from their current onerous req's while their new req's are being resolved.. That being said, the key infraction only happens when drones are used for commercial purposes. Drones, UAV, etc is really just a fancy version of an RC airplane. So do it yourself drone construction is completely legal... maybe the next Archinect design build competition. Replace cyberdyne with google and the future is now beeyotches! https://youtu.be/CCDIuZUfETc

Dec 1, 15 12:32 pm  · 
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archiwutm8

Skanska and a few other construction companies are already using uavs for constructionn monitoring...

Dec 1, 15 12:35 pm  · 
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3tk

@chigurh: it does take a while now to appreciate it now that we're in the computer.  I loved hand drafting, the balance of maintaining the equipment and the content clean was great, felt more like drawing than the CAD documents.  Now that I see what each line means and how the relationships work out, the CAD docs seem more involved and beautiful.

Dec 1, 15 4:33 pm  · 
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wurden freo,

FAA has some very loose definition regarding commercial activity. Due to the nebulous nature of the controversy over it, we have an aura of questionable legality over the matter of COMMERCIAL use of UAV/drones. 

It might be radio control but so is technically those fancy military drones. Even RC airplanes and RC helicopters had been deemed by FAA as aerial vehicles (unmanned) as far back as the 1950s. This isn't a new domain. Recreational, hobby RC airplane use has always been considered a non-commercial hobby. When you use it for commercial, this gets into the domain they mean by commercial use. 

As wide as the commercial scope that FAA operates on, if you MAKE money directly or INDIRECTLY or even if YOU don't make money but someone else does, like Youtube videos with commercial ads injected into the video by Youtube, you can get into heat under FAA. It is this controversy that is generally holding back the wide adoption of drones add to that the safety factor. 

If I were to 'engineer' the design of a drone for carrying such heavy load as materials, I would probably be implementing armored shelled helium bladder systems inside the structure of the drone... UAV. Reason is the helium would help reduce the strain on motors to lift such weight. Ultimately, the carry system for carrying building materials would need to be structurally strong and resist failure. 

Historically, its founded on the principle of blimps and their lifting capability. However, the rigid to semi-rigid armor shell is useful to allow such a craft to be aerodynamic compared to classic blimps. Doing so with a blower fan system with computer controlled servo actuators to open and close 'exhaust gates'  and you can actually have a stealthy UFO with stealthed fan blades and stealth ball bearings so it is very quiet. 

You wonder where those UFO stories comes from by large.... simple government research projects that are classified. I probably could design and build one and with a little bit of firmware changes from flight controllers used for quadcopters, it'll work. 

Dec 1, 15 8:11 pm  · 
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