I'm attending the ABX in Boston next week. This is done by the Boston Society of Architects. Just noticed today that they have given a table to the Architects/engineers for 9/11 'truth' and are also allowing these cockweasels the opportunity to present at the 'learning stage"
I'm personally disappointed in the BSA for allowing this slop to be presented as fact, I'd expected more out of them.
Those 9/11 truther idiots had a table on the floor of the national AIA convention in Chicago last year as well. I share your disappointment in seeing that they managed to slither through the cracks.
Dammit. These guys are like a cockroach that won't die. They bought a huge table at AIA National and then were overwhelmingly defeated (96% to 4%) in their attempt to get AIA to vote for a resolution to recommend reopening the investigation into WTC 7.
Brain dead conspiracy theorists, wish they'd use their exhibitor money to buy a clue. Grrrr.
Are you guys arguing for censorship? I really don't see the big deal here. They paid the fee, let them have their spot. Haven't seen the program, but unless its a keynote, there should be an opportunity to shoot holes in their arguement... or just go attend something worthwhile. Maybe you should have posted this under craigslist rants and raves? Ha!
Then start a petition to get all the AIA members and FAIA members thrown out of the AIA organization. Try and get their licenses revoked as well. Let your zealotry know no bounds!
You could also just find vendors at the expo for products like fencing, barricades, partitions, sound isolation, etc. and set up a free speech zone around the truthers' booth.
Looking at the floorplan for the expo, you have the New England Carpenters' Union, two lumber companies, and Georgia-Pacific Gypsum all relatively close ... get creative. Even Tremco isn't that far away, I'm sure they could contribute some acoustical sealant.
Well, why don't we just invite the Klan to speak at the AIA convention, you know, free speech and all that jazz. Fucking idiot truthers; all about the Benjamins, not a god damned thing to do with truth.
They had a stand at the AIA convention in Atlanta as well this past May. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving them space to present their ideas. The precedent that would be set by censorship would be worse than them actually having a table at a convention.
As corny as this may sound, I think its quite impressive that in the US, there remains a capacity for questioning anything and everything, even in the context of professional organizations. You wouldn't really see anything like this in any other country.
They'll disappear on their own and become irrelevant after some time; as Donna pointed out, their motion to get the AIA to reopen an investigation was overwhelmingly defeated. That's how they'll disappear. But censorship? No thanks.
Again. The AIA doesn't have to give them a stand, sell them a stand, or do a damned thing for this fucking "organization". Are we interested in facts, backed up by science, or are we more interested in placating a few nut jobs, that only seek to marginalize our profession even further while preying on the families of the dead and lining their own pockets? Fuck them, and fuck their right to speech on the expo floor; that's why god made sidewalks and sandwich boards.
A.I. it's not censorship if a private organization declines to host a platform for a message with which they disagree. If the truthers face government interference in their attempt to speak, that is censorship.
Their ideas are based in nonsense and misinformation. That's why they don't deserve the respect of providing a platform for further dissemination.
they shouldn't let their convention be overrun by irrelevant tripe in the name of free speech. it's not architectural, it's spam. it has nothing to do with the profession or practice of architecture. they might as well fill booths with disney movies, armed forces recruiters, and thrift store pawn shops.
True. Private organizations have the right to host and not host whomever they want.
But it would still be a form of internal censorship to deny them space on differing opinions. Censorship isn't performed solely by governments. Any group, individual, or entity can take part in the act of censorship.
If the AIA as an organization unanimously disagrees (was there a vote on this?) with their message and ideas, then why are they repeatedly allowing them on the Expo floor year after year? I don't know the answer to that, but if I had to guess, it would be because they do not want to allow themselves as an organization to engage in self-censorship of their own members. It really does set a dangerous and un-American precedent.
Their entire discourse revolves around the questioning of architectural and engineering arguments about the way the towers fell. They never offer a conclusion like "this was an inside job" or "Bush and Cheney did 9/11." If they did, then yes, maybe the AIA should un-invite them since they would be hosting a group with an unsubstantiated political conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with architecture or engineering. But that's not what they're doing, and that's why the AIA isn't kicking them out.
Should they be ridiculed, challenged, and questioned? Absolutely. But not silenced.
It's one booth on a convention floor. To be honest I didn't even know that the truthers were at the convention in Chicago even though I probably walked past their booth several times.
Surprised no one has posted the jet fuel can't melt steel beams meme yet.
i'm not saying they should be excluded because some people disagree with their opinions. i'm saying they should be excluded because they're not relevant to the profession or practice of architecture. if they wanted to set up a booth at a mental health convention, so people involved in the mental health trades could talk to them about their conspiracy theories, then it might be appropriate. but setting up a booth about conspiracy theories in a convention devoted to architecture is not appropriate.
it would be akin to filling the floor with jeb bush and rubio and cruz and trump and all those people's campaign groups, because it serves the purpose of advancing their campaign message, but doesn't serve the the boston society of architect's purpose of fostering a better community of architects and related disciplines.
they've already analyzed how the building fell. it's done, it's in the past, if people want more information on what happened they can go to the internet to look at it. pushing the conspiracy theory that something else happened does not advance our understanding of how buildings work or how to design better buildings. just because they say it isn't a politically motivated hatchet job doesn't mean it isn't a politically motivated hatchet job.
A.I., the problem is that they are exactly like anti-vaxxers and moon landing conspiracists: you can question them ENDLESSLY and they will never concede. They're not interested in logic and science; they're interested in believing what they already believe despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. At some point it is a waste of time to include them in the conversation because you know already that they aren't really contributing anything.
Nov 11, 15 7:28 pm ·
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WTF BSA?
I'm attending the ABX in Boston next week. This is done by the Boston Society of Architects. Just noticed today that they have given a table to the Architects/engineers for 9/11 'truth' and are also allowing these cockweasels the opportunity to present at the 'learning stage"
I'm personally disappointed in the BSA for allowing this slop to be presented as fact, I'd expected more out of them.
grrr.
http://abexpo.com/exhibit-hall/exhibitor-list/
Looks like a few hundred exhibitors. I wonder if they just accepted everyone who could cover the entry fee?
It's not like they're getting a panel. That would be a whole different ballgame.
[edit: nevermind, I just noticed this: http://abexpo.com/conference/session-detail?session=LSC02 I hope they get dragged over the coals by the audience.]
Those 9/11 truther idiots had a table on the floor of the national AIA convention in Chicago last year as well. I share your disappointment in seeing that they managed to slither through the cracks.
Brain dead conspiracy theorists, wish they'd use their exhibitor money to buy a clue. Grrrr.
They should be lobbying for the release of the censored portion of the 9/11 Commission Report.
People like Jan Utzon of Denmark and about seven FAIA members asking questions in a polite and thoughtful way! Is there no shame?
^because ignorant and loaded questions, evem asked politely, deserve great levels of ridicule.
A&E troothers are the Westboro Baptists of our profession.
Are you guys arguing for censorship? I really don't see the big deal here. They paid the fee, let them have their spot. Haven't seen the program, but unless its a keynote, there should be an opportunity to shoot holes in their arguement... or just go attend something worthwhile. Maybe you should have posted this under craigslist rants and raves? Ha!
^ do we let anti-vax piles of shit set up tables at medical events?
Same deal here.
Then start a petition to get all the AIA members and FAIA members thrown out of the AIA organization. Try and get their licenses revoked as well. Let your zealotry know no bounds!
You could also just find vendors at the expo for products like fencing, barricades, partitions, sound isolation, etc. and set up a free speech zone around the truthers' booth.
Looking at the floorplan for the expo, you have the New England Carpenters' Union, two lumber companies, and Georgia-Pacific Gypsum all relatively close ... get creative. Even Tremco isn't that far away, I'm sure they could contribute some acoustical sealant.
Well, why don't we just invite the Klan to speak at the AIA convention, you know, free speech and all that jazz. Fucking idiot truthers; all about the Benjamins, not a god damned thing to do with truth.
They had a stand at the AIA convention in Atlanta as well this past May. I don't think there's anything wrong with giving them space to present their ideas. The precedent that would be set by censorship would be worse than them actually having a table at a convention.
As corny as this may sound, I think its quite impressive that in the US, there remains a capacity for questioning anything and everything, even in the context of professional organizations. You wouldn't really see anything like this in any other country.
They'll disappear on their own and become irrelevant after some time; as Donna pointed out, their motion to get the AIA to reopen an investigation was overwhelmingly defeated. That's how they'll disappear. But censorship? No thanks.
Again. The AIA doesn't have to give them a stand, sell them a stand, or do a damned thing for this fucking "organization". Are we interested in facts, backed up by science, or are we more interested in placating a few nut jobs, that only seek to marginalize our profession even further while preying on the families of the dead and lining their own pockets? Fuck them, and fuck their right to speech on the expo floor; that's why god made sidewalks and sandwich boards.
Their ideas are based in nonsense and misinformation. That's why they don't deserve the respect of providing a platform for further dissemination.
they shouldn't let their convention be overrun by irrelevant tripe in the name of free speech. it's not architectural, it's spam. it has nothing to do with the profession or practice of architecture. they might as well fill booths with disney movies, armed forces recruiters, and thrift store pawn shops.
True. Private organizations have the right to host and not host whomever they want.
But it would still be a form of internal censorship to deny them space on differing opinions. Censorship isn't performed solely by governments. Any group, individual, or entity can take part in the act of censorship.
If the AIA as an organization unanimously disagrees (was there a vote on this?) with their message and ideas, then why are they repeatedly allowing them on the Expo floor year after year? I don't know the answer to that, but if I had to guess, it would be because they do not want to allow themselves as an organization to engage in self-censorship of their own members. It really does set a dangerous and un-American precedent.
Their entire discourse revolves around the questioning of architectural and engineering arguments about the way the towers fell. They never offer a conclusion like "this was an inside job" or "Bush and Cheney did 9/11." If they did, then yes, maybe the AIA should un-invite them since they would be hosting a group with an unsubstantiated political conspiracy theory that has nothing to do with architecture or engineering. But that's not what they're doing, and that's why the AIA isn't kicking them out.
Should they be ridiculed, challenged, and questioned? Absolutely. But not silenced.
Surprised no one has posted the jet fuel can't melt steel beams meme yet.
i'm not saying they should be excluded because some people disagree with their opinions. i'm saying they should be excluded because they're not relevant to the profession or practice of architecture. if they wanted to set up a booth at a mental health convention, so people involved in the mental health trades could talk to them about their conspiracy theories, then it might be appropriate. but setting up a booth about conspiracy theories in a convention devoted to architecture is not appropriate.
it would be akin to filling the floor with jeb bush and rubio and cruz and trump and all those people's campaign groups, because it serves the purpose of advancing their campaign message, but doesn't serve the the boston society of architect's purpose of fostering a better community of architects and related disciplines.
they've already analyzed how the building fell. it's done, it's in the past, if people want more information on what happened they can go to the internet to look at it. pushing the conspiracy theory that something else happened does not advance our understanding of how buildings work or how to design better buildings. just because they say it isn't a politically motivated hatchet job doesn't mean it isn't a politically motivated hatchet job.
" If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever."
George Orwell
i have seen the future.
the future is beta. and his boot.
welcome the future.
when it comes to truthers, i'm okay with that, i'll repent later; when i give a shit.
A.I., the problem is that they are exactly like anti-vaxxers and moon landing conspiracists: you can question them ENDLESSLY and they will never concede. They're not interested in logic and science; they're interested in believing what they already believe despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. At some point it is a waste of time to include them in the conversation because you know already that they aren't really contributing anything.
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