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Better to move first and look for job later or vice versa?

mac1231

I currently live in Houston, but I'm looking to find a new job in Chicago, San Francisco, Boston, or NYC. Honestly, if I found a great firm to work for, I would move to Shanghai, Dubai, etc. I don't seem to be getting much feedback from firms, and I'm wondering if I would have a better chance if I just chose a city and moved there. I don't have much money saved, so it would be a gamble, which is why I'm trying to apply before moving. I would definitely be willing to pay for my own flight if I were to get an interview somewhere, but I'm curious whether I would even be in the running if my current location wasn't taken into consideration. With so much competition for jobs, it seems employers have their pick and might be more likely to choose someone in their city. Any advice would be much appreciated.

 
Jul 18, 11 1:02 pm
citizen

Wow.  Good question.  If you already knew the one place you really want to live, I'd say just go ahead, move, and do what you need to survive (e.g., volunteer, work retail, wait tables, but not turn tricks) until you land a professional gig.

But if you're not sure about the place, that's an even riskier proposition.  So I'm useless here....

 

 

Jul 18, 11 4:16 pm  · 
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even in the best of times it is best to be where you are looking for work.  that said, in the best of times a job is easy to get so the expense of being in a city you don't know is not such a burden.  now i am not so sure.  it could work or could backfire...

Jul 18, 11 7:19 pm  · 
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439

If you have friends, relatives in those cities I would ask them if you can use their address. I don't know if it makes sense in the US, but in Europe I would also ask them to get you a prepaid sim for your mobile for that country just to pretend to the firms your are already around to start tomorrow. You can always take a flight to the interview and it might be less expensive and is less risky than moving.
Maybe it is worth a try to setup a business around that problem ...

2nd citizen about the one place and would extend it with one reason (girlfriend, surf spot ... whatever)

Jul 19, 11 5:32 am  · 
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archibernating

It all depends on what you got to offer.  @jump said it well, not to repeat it.  Gone are the times when companies were recruiting architects nationally and employees nowdays look for local addresses on resumes. Oftentimes in their adds they even specify that they are looking for locals. It is always a gamble to move so to minimize your risk you may want to consider getting a short term apartment lease or a sublet for a maybe 3 months and see how it goes. 

On a side note, i wonder why would you want to leave Houston.  Southern and Midwestern states are recording increase in architectural fee collection which directly reflects on the job market for architects.  New York area has taken a nose dive while California is not improving.  I'd suggest you weather the storm for a little longer where you at because it is much worse in the rest of the country.

Jul 19, 11 8:34 am  · 
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mac1231

I would like to leave Houston since I'm from Texas, went to undergrad and grad school here, and I'm just ready to move on. I've wanted to live in Chicago for about 5 years now, and I always have some excuse to wait for a better time. I'm working on getting my license, so I was going to wait until that's over to get another job, but that may be another 6 months. I would consider moving to Austin, but there aren't as many opportunities there, unfortunately. I do have a job here, but my hours were cut about 6 months ago. I would want to find a new job even if that hadn't happened.

Jul 19, 11 1:30 pm  · 
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Digital_Sandbox

Chicago is a dead city to architects friend. Half the architects in this city are unemployed, furlough, or on reduced hours. Its a holocaust. Not to mention the city is broke along with the state, and we have the most expensive gas in the whole country. Without having seen your work, cant say that its impossible to get a job here, but in this market its more who you know than what you know or how talented of a designer you are. Which just makes moving here on a whim, without having a good network of people, that much harder. Just my two cents.

Jul 19, 11 1:47 pm  · 
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mac1231

Then what cities aren't dead? It doesn't seem to be great anywhere in the US. NYC seems to be doing ok. I have a hard enough time trying to find a job here, and I actually know people in Houston. But, I don't want to wait forever to make a move. I've already waited 2 years hoping the market will get better.

Jul 19, 11 5:58 pm  · 
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trace™

I hear the Dakota's are doing well.  There and Texas.

Good luck!

 

 

Personally, I'd move for the job in this economy.  If  things were better, then I'd choose the balance between where I wanted to live, cost of living and job prospects.  Since none of those factors are there, I'd probably save my cash and keep looking.

Jul 19, 11 9:46 pm  · 
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le bossman

Since your choices of cities (and continents) are so disperate, it sounds like you don't have any particular reason why you need to be in any of those cities, as opposed to Houston.  I'm a part-time Chicagoan myself, and honestly I'd tell you to stay away.  I was just laid off three weeks ago, and there's not a lot out there to work with.  Especially if you don't know anyone.  If I were you, I'd just keep trying around Houston, or probably the neighboring states, like OK, AR, or LA.  Don't move somewhere where you don't have a network right now, unless you have some kind of family there that you can rely on for help.  It might seem bad in Houston, but somehow given the price of oil it must be better than Chicago.  Try to keep busy.  Do an artist's residency in Marfa or something.  But don't leave without a job. 

If I were to try anywhere it would be the "second cities", places that are large enough to have good architecture and design but that aren't as attractive to the better designers.  Pittsburgh, Louisville, Kansas City, etc. seem to be less of a holocaust than Chicago for example and are reasonably sized and cultured, and cheaper to live.  I myself did rather well in the northern rockies for three years.  Don't believe all the hype about big cities. 

Jul 19, 11 10:09 pm  · 
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mac1231

I appreciate the advice, but I just gotta get out of Texas! I would like to live in a real city where you can actually take public transportation and walk rather than drive your car everywhere. There aren't many firms here that I would like to work at, to be honest. And, these small firms just don't have openings come up very often. Either way, I would like to vary my experience and not just stay here for the rest of my career. I feel like it's hurt me enough to have all my experience and education in Texas now that I'm applying for jobs outside of Texas. There are more firms that have projects that interest me in the cities I listed earlier, and they are cities I have visited and could see myself enjoying living in. Since I do currently have a job (although on reduced hours), I would rather stay working there than take a job doing projects that are even less appealing in Kentucky, Missouri, OK, etc. 

Jul 19, 11 10:26 pm  · 
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le bossman

okay, again, read what i wrote.  Don't believe all the hype about big cities.  Look, the elements of a "real city" can be a novelty in the first month.  Public transportation.  Walk everywhere.  Cool firms.  Varied experience.  Thats until you've been there a while.  That eventually becomes your every day life.  Sharing a seat with a homeless man who's covered in puke and stinking of gangrene on a daily basis, or jambed into the subway like cattle, can actually make driving your air-conditioned car an hour to work every single day seem rather pleasant.  Especially if you are riding the train to the unemployment office or a shitty retail job that you hate to death, and that's if you're lucky.  If you're not lucky, then you will be riding it to beg anyone who will listen for a job on a daily basis.  I've done that too.  Honestly, the grass is always greener somewhere else.  And believe it or not, there are cool firms everywhere, if you're willing to look. 

Since you currently have a job, it's best in this economy to stay there and apply for work in your free time.  This is especially possible since you work on reduced hours.  If you want to ride shitty public transit so bad, just move to the Hermann Park area.  I'm sure you'll come up with an excuse to take the Metro Rail downtown to Main Street every once and a while, and you don't even have to drink and drive. 

Seriously, the last three years have scarred me.  I'm just looking out for you.  When the economy comes back, move all you want.  But whether you know it or not, my take is that Houston is the best thing for you right now, or at least until you find a better job. 

Jul 19, 11 10:58 pm  · 
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Plenty of work in Shanghai!

 

Too busy to elaborate! ;)

Jul 19, 11 11:22 pm  · 
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archibernating

You obviously have your mind set on leaving and you seam to be waiting for someone to paint you a rosy picture and give you a final nudge.  I am afraid that most architects are out of crayons :) .  I know exactly how you feel.  I lived in Texas for many years until I moved to NYC on a whim.  Luckily I got a gob within a month, but that was back in 2002. I've been laid off more than a year ago and since than i had 3 interviews and only one job offer.  One of the interviews came from San Francisco.  I must have sent close to 200 applications by now and that is with a solid resume and rich portfolio.  For a single position in NYC there is usually around 300 applicants so if you want to be 301 come to NYC. 

The job market has been beyond the frustration for thousands of architects everywhere.  Everyone is looking towards cities for a salvation which is only flooding the city market even more. 

You are doing your licensing which is the best thing you can do in this job climate.  You will come out better off in 6 months and in case the tide turns.  If I were you I would bite the bullet and stay where you are at because you are not missing out on anything.

Jul 20, 11 3:57 am  · 
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LOOP!

Have you thought about Canada or Australia? Things are crazy busy down here at the moment. If you know Revit and have a few years work experience, you won't have any trouble landing a job. Lifestyle is great, pay is better than the US, fantastic design scene.

Plenty of surf spots as well...

Jul 20, 11 6:42 am  · 
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trace™

I'll second leB's comments - big cities aren't necessarily anything better.  I live where there is plenty of public transit, but I dont' live on  a line, so I have never, not once, taken the light rail in the 7 years I have been here.  

Also, the grass is always greener.  The times I've visited TX it seems just like any other cities, imho.  Some places, like LA, are just miserable to live in (imho).  Others are easier, like Denver, Portland, etc., but they are also much smaller.

I've lived in TONS of cities, many small towns too, and NOWHERE is necessarily better than another, it is all what you make of it.  The right job, good friends, etc., make a much larger impact on quality of life.  

 

You have a job, keep it until you have another locked in.  I know plenty that would move anywhere, to any dump hole, to just have a job.

Jul 20, 11 8:34 am  · 
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"I've lived in TONS of cities, many small towns too, and NOWHERE is necessarily better than another, it is all what you make of it."

Quoting this for emphasis. Although, it would be nice to have the option even within the same city. Although one should naturally be suspicious of a city like Houston when a city of 2.1 million people has 17 major hospitals.

Jul 20, 11 3:21 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

I will allow you to take over my mortgage payments and live in my metro detroit house in exchange for your job in Houston.

Jul 20, 11 3:35 pm  · 
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mac1231

Well, the major hospitals are why I have a job right now. When I started working at my firm, we designed libraries, offices, and healthcare projects, but the last 2 years, it's only been healthcare. I've interviewed at a couple of firms, and I always get the "you do healthcare projects, and we don't do healthcare" speech. I feel like I can't get away from the stereotypes that go along with healthcare to get myself out of this. Most job postings I see ask for retail and coporate experience, which I don't have. I definitely want to get a job before moving. I would move ti Shanghai just to have a new experience and expand my portfolio, etc.

Jul 20, 11 4:44 pm  · 
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mac - if the stereotying is a concern, try leading off with any other projects you've worked on and then move on to the healthcare work. talk about what those experiences have taught you - what the take away is and how you will apply it to the work at the firm (ie, is there a shared complexity of systems that you've mastered. is there a speed issue with them that would apply). if you can do a little homework, show them how what you've learned with that work can transfer and potentially improve what they're doing.

 

too many people are too passive at interviews - 'here i am, here's what i've done'. the people we've hired are the ones who, yes, show us who they are, but they also showed us something about what they could be in our firm.

Jul 20, 11 5:51 pm  · 
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whoops -back to the original intent: having lived in a city that's been hard to embrace at times, my personal take is to live somewhere you love first and foremost. your work career is 30-40 years long. if you really love a place, dig in, make it home (which i think you have to do), you may have 5-10 jobs, a couple career changes, whatever over those 30-40 years but i doubt you'd ever really regret living there (unless, like atlanta, the traffic, infrastructure, and politics all go to hell in a short span).

Jul 20, 11 5:55 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

my offer is open to everyone

Jul 20, 11 7:20 pm  · 
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mac1231

Evan - any openings at your firm?

Gregory - thanks for the advice. I definitely plan on trying to present my healthcare experience in the best light possible. I've only worked at 2 firms (one was a summer internship), so I think it's time to move on to bigger and better things.  I definitely think I need to get better at selling myself during interviews. I think I get too worried about misrepresenting my experience. 

Jul 20, 11 11:36 pm  · 
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mac1231

Then what is your advice for getting a job in another city? It seems like many job postings are beginning to include requirements about living in the city or have a license in that particular state. 

Jul 25, 11 8:44 pm  · 
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ruSAL1987

mac, looks like you're in the same boat I'm in.  I'm in Houston too, have worked at several places and am ready to get out.  All this talk about Houston being in good shape must not be living here (or extremely lucky).  I've been fortunate to not have been laid off but our company is struggling badly.  I've been in TX my whole life so I know a lot of people looking for jobs here and there's just nothing out there.  I came aboard this place early 2006 and it was busy and people were fat and happy; now layoffs are the norm.  I've been applying for jobs in NYC as well but have noticed the same thing about needing to be located there.  I have a friend's address I am about to start using and am hoping that changes my luck.  Fortunately, I received my license earlier this year and NCARB said my NY license is being reviewed and they just emailed saying I should have an answer in a couple of weeks.  I'm hoping that helps too.

I've also thought about moving there and looking for a job but the poster above saying you'll burn through your money quickly seems accurate.  I'll stick it out here as long as possible and keep applying.  Good luck!

 

Jul 27, 11 12:58 pm  · 
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jplourde

The best approach to landing a job in any of those cities seems to be applying to international offices.  

Personally, I don't think the US market will be robust enough to allow new hires in the coming years [until the US acknowledges they need to investigate 'smart entropy'] for projects in solely US markets.  That means your best bets in the US are the coasts.  

 

However, that said, even better opportunity's might be to work into an international firm with no geo-political preferences.  I think a lot of offices that are able to ride economic downturns in one geolocale support those failings with revenue from other robust markets.

 

 

Jul 27, 11 3:53 pm  · 
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chris-chitect

I'm in the same boat, well sort of. I moved back home after my masters, found work for six months, and then have been out of work for the last 11. I've tried looking back in Vancouver ( where I did my masters  ), but it's a four hour trip away. I've had three interviews in which my current living arrangements have been questioned. 

I've decided to just move over despite job prospects not getting any better. Somehow having to live with my mother at 27 wasn't mentioned when I applied to study architecture. I've got enough money to do nothing for 6 months if need be. At least as I move over, I will have a local address on a resume and can go for an interview at a moment's notice. I started my last job the day after making a cold call, so being local and ready to go can help. It's a little scary since I've spent nearly a year without a job though.

 

Jul 28, 11 3:14 am  · 
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