So I started working with a large lumber company in the beginning of June creating layouts for wall, roof and floor framing systems in large commercial, residential and multi-use buildings. I’m still in school full time during the regular semester so they offered me FT in summer and PT during school. Most of what I have been working on is large apartment complexes and I’m using a design software that was specifically developed for our need that is similar to Revit and CAD, however there is no rendering, the 3D aspect of the software is very raw and used only for referencing not presentation. There is only 3 people there doing the designing including myself and one of the other guys, like myself is also a student. I have to mention that when I first was being offered the job I almost did not want to take the job because the compensation was horrible ($15/h). I get to see projects from different architects and engineers all over southern California so it’s good experience for my first job designing (in an office, I have done a lot of freelance but that is too inconsistent) but experience doesn’t pay the bills. At any rate now I am MISERABLE. Not because of the work itself but because I’m proficient and I know I have increased their profits since working because I have looked at the books, yet I am making about $11/h after taxes. This kills me because I was making over three times this amount at my other job but I wanted to just get my foot in the door in this field. My objective is to transfer after this semester into my undergrad program. I’ll have my AS in architecture and LEED certification.
I know my coworker and I are worth much more than we are being compensated for. I haven’t had a job this low paying since I was probably 18 and I’m 26 now. I’m not an “entitled millennial.” I have worked hard since I was 14 to make it in this world. I have done grunt work, I have done labor. I know what hard work is, working 16 hour days and 70+ hour work weeks and doing some of the hardest trades in construction. The reality is I took the job simply because I wanted to get my foot in the door in the architecture/design industry.
Now I’m wondering if this is what other firms starting rates are? Again I’m not in the traditional architecture firm so I don’t know maybe they pay better at an actual firm? What kind of compensation could someone with prior work experience expect out of school with a BS? Or even an M.Arch in the LA area?
What is the software you are using? I recently got the architects version of BC Framer to try out. It's no where near as advanced as REVIT, but is also a completely different tool, for a different reason.
Obviously, if you want to be an architect, you need to be working in an architecture office, so get out there and find a different job.
What was your previous job? Often people who are doing architecture as a second career (is it your second career?) find that their pay drops while they get experience. $15 is low, but as a small employer, I really need a $15/hr drafter, lol.
So there is three of you? "union-ize"! If you are truly miserable make a plan. Meet with your supervisor. If they don't agree, plan a walk out with your compatriots. Be willing to lose your job.
$15 an hour is low, but not exploitative, especially since you're working student hours, and you're in an associates degree program. You just started in June, when you agreed to work for the wage you're getting. I'd worry that if you were to bail now, you'd look unreliable to potential employers. Stick it out for the semester. Do you really want to be doing a job search while school is in session?
Are you actually creating the layouts or are you imputing dimensions into a computer program and the program is creating the layouts based on the inputed dimensions?
I like anonitect's answer. It's not exploitative under your circumstances, and as long as you're learning something, I'd say keep at it. As soon as you stop learning, look for a job in an architecture firm, but for PT/summer work don't necessarily expect to make a lot more than that, I'm afraid.
15$ an hour is not that bad for what you are doing. Dont expect much more for even entry level jobs in arch firms...its common to start at 18-20 per hour with a masters degrees.
Stop fretting over "when to call it exploitative," and just decide whether or not it's worth it to stay for a while, or quit and get another gig. Some good advice above.
nothing about this situation is exploitative. you being paid as agreed for work you choose to do, and you seem capable of leaving for a better job whenever you wish.
you implied your previous salary was over $90,000, and seem to resent the pay you get now. in that case i think you need to do some research on architect salaries and give serious thought to your career plans. $90,000 is a mid career salary for architects in most parts of the us, and usually takes 8-10 years plus a license to reach. there are exceptions, but unless you have something special to offer and a plan how to do so, you wont be one of those.
Well thanks for the feedback to all. I guess I just have to suck it up. I'm not unreliable and don't want to seem like I am so I'll probably stick around until the 1 year mark. I have done research on architects salaries before on the US bureau of labor statistics but maybe there is a better source? Also the idea of making $18-$20 out of a masters program is pretty sad after the insane college loans and cost of living in Los Angeles. Especially when little Nicky down the street there is going to be making what I'm making now just to flip burgers. No wonder everyone says run
yes, run for the hills!a lot of people on here are fully indebted to architecture and feel the need to patronize anyone that thinks otherwise of architectureand it's miserable field. like Geezetect mentioned,you may want to look at other architecture jobs before applying for a masters to make sure that you are semi compatible with this field.I made that mistake and regret doing my masters.the saying in the architecture field is ' it gets worse'. just wait till the next economic downturn...right as you graduate with your masters.
the US labor statistics dont seem to give a good breakdown based on experience. Search on glassdoor, read through archinects salary poll, and google aia salary report for better info. It's not a bad job if you can get it, but even then the pay is going to be less than many of your peers of similar capabiltiy and education who go into other fields. if this bothers you already, take it as a sign architecture might not suit you because it doesn't suddenly pay better once you've graduated.
re flipping burgers: bloomberg had a good feature on mcdonalds franchisees this week. so, a manager at mcdonalds gets a base salary of $108,000, plus a cut of the profits for all the shops he/she owns. no college degree required. your friend nicky might be making the prudent career move.
dont get distracted by what is considered the purpose of an architecture education - design. given what you are doing you could probably jump right into Construction Management and make a good living. you can work for ownership directly and frankly do things architects wished they did and had done in the past - like get on a plane and fly to the marble quarry to inspect the $1 million order of stone. you can get into Foresnic Architecture.....had a buddy went from designing airports at a major firm to running them as facilities manager ($150k + benefits) and then billed his former architecture firm an hourly consulting fee on the side ($300hr)......Falling Water by Frank Lloyd Wright was DESIGNED in 4 hours - supposedly - do not forget this fact. you are not being exploited given that you are still a student, but since architect students are so convinced working for a Design firm IS ARCHITEcTURe and will to do it for free, anyone close to the professiom like your job knows not all of you designy seekers will get jobs and $15/hr is better than free at a Starchitect firm.....
i use "design" here as educated. there is just as much design in other aspects of architecture starting with Building Technoligies all the way intozoning ordinances but your education at most places points to the Stars as the beacons of design - which is often just form and space and eye candy....
Sep 19, 15 11:55 am ·
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When do you call your job exploitative?
So I started working with a large lumber company in the beginning of June creating layouts for wall, roof and floor framing systems in large commercial, residential and multi-use buildings. I’m still in school full time during the regular semester so they offered me FT in summer and PT during school. Most of what I have been working on is large apartment complexes and I’m using a design software that was specifically developed for our need that is similar to Revit and CAD, however there is no rendering, the 3D aspect of the software is very raw and used only for referencing not presentation. There is only 3 people there doing the designing including myself and one of the other guys, like myself is also a student. I have to mention that when I first was being offered the job I almost did not want to take the job because the compensation was horrible ($15/h). I get to see projects from different architects and engineers all over southern California so it’s good experience for my first job designing (in an office, I have done a lot of freelance but that is too inconsistent) but experience doesn’t pay the bills. At any rate now I am MISERABLE. Not because of the work itself but because I’m proficient and I know I have increased their profits since working because I have looked at the books, yet I am making about $11/h after taxes. This kills me because I was making over three times this amount at my other job but I wanted to just get my foot in the door in this field. My objective is to transfer after this semester into my undergrad program. I’ll have my AS in architecture and LEED certification.
I know my coworker and I are worth much more than we are being compensated for. I haven’t had a job this low paying since I was probably 18 and I’m 26 now. I’m not an “entitled millennial.” I have worked hard since I was 14 to make it in this world. I have done grunt work, I have done labor. I know what hard work is, working 16 hour days and 70+ hour work weeks and doing some of the hardest trades in construction. The reality is I took the job simply because I wanted to get my foot in the door in the architecture/design industry.
Now I’m wondering if this is what other firms starting rates are? Again I’m not in the traditional architecture firm so I don’t know maybe they pay better at an actual firm? What kind of compensation could someone with prior work experience expect out of school with a BS? Or even an M.Arch in the LA area?
So find a higher paying job, and give your current employer notice that you're leaving.
Or ask for a raise. If they say no to the raise, see above regarding new job & quitting.
Either way, problem solved.
What is the software you are using? I recently got the architects version of BC Framer to try out. It's no where near as advanced as REVIT, but is also a completely different tool, for a different reason.
Obviously, if you want to be an architect, you need to be working in an architecture office, so get out there and find a different job.
What was your previous job? Often people who are doing architecture as a second career (is it your second career?) find that their pay drops while they get experience. $15 is low, but as a small employer, I really need a $15/hr drafter, lol.
So there is three of you? "union-ize"! If you are truly miserable make a plan. Meet with your supervisor. If they don't agree, plan a walk out with your compatriots. Be willing to lose your job.
$15 an hour is low, but not exploitative, especially since you're working student hours, and you're in an associates degree program. You just started in June, when you agreed to work for the wage you're getting. I'd worry that if you were to bail now, you'd look unreliable to potential employers. Stick it out for the semester. Do you really want to be doing a job search while school is in session?
Are you actually creating the layouts or are you imputing dimensions into a computer program and the program is creating the layouts based on the inputed dimensions?
I like anonitect's answer. It's not exploitative under your circumstances, and as long as you're learning something, I'd say keep at it. As soon as you stop learning, look for a job in an architecture firm, but for PT/summer work don't necessarily expect to make a lot more than that, I'm afraid.
15$ an hour is not that bad for what you are doing. Dont expect much more for even entry level jobs in arch firms...its common to start at 18-20 per hour with a masters degrees.
Look on the bright side. When you graduate you can work for a starchitect for nothing.
Stop fretting over "when to call it exploitative," and just decide whether or not it's worth it to stay for a while, or quit and get another gig. Some good advice above.
nothing about this situation is exploitative. you being paid as agreed for work you choose to do, and you seem capable of leaving for a better job whenever you wish.
you implied your previous salary was over $90,000, and seem to resent the pay you get now. in that case i think you need to do some research on architect salaries and give serious thought to your career plans. $90,000 is a mid career salary for architects in most parts of the us, and usually takes 8-10 years plus a license to reach. there are exceptions, but unless you have something special to offer and a plan how to do so, you wont be one of those.
But little Nicky makes the best burgers.
yes, run for the hills!a lot of people on here are fully indebted to architecture and feel the need to patronize anyone that thinks otherwise of architectureand it's miserable field. like Geezetect mentioned,you may want to look at other architecture jobs before applying for a masters to make sure that you are semi compatible with this field.I made that mistake and regret doing my masters.the saying in the architecture field is ' it gets worse'. just wait till the next economic downturn...right as you graduate with your masters.
the US labor statistics dont seem to give a good breakdown based on experience. Search on glassdoor, read through archinects salary poll, and google aia salary report for better info. It's not a bad job if you can get it, but even then the pay is going to be less than many of your peers of similar capabiltiy and education who go into other fields. if this bothers you already, take it as a sign architecture might not suit you because it doesn't suddenly pay better once you've graduated.
re flipping burgers: bloomberg had a good feature on mcdonalds franchisees this week. so, a manager at mcdonalds gets a base salary of $108,000, plus a cut of the profits for all the shops he/she owns. no college degree required. your friend nicky might be making the prudent career move.
dont get distracted by what is considered the purpose of an architecture education - design. given what you are doing you could probably jump right into Construction Management and make a good living. you can work for ownership directly and frankly do things architects wished they did and had done in the past - like get on a plane and fly to the marble quarry to inspect the $1 million order of stone. you can get into Foresnic Architecture.....had a buddy went from designing airports at a major firm to running them as facilities manager ($150k + benefits) and then billed his former architecture firm an hourly consulting fee on the side ($300hr)......Falling Water by Frank Lloyd Wright was DESIGNED in 4 hours - supposedly - do not forget this fact. you are not being exploited given that you are still a student, but since architect students are so convinced working for a Design firm IS ARCHITEcTURe and will to do it for free, anyone close to the professiom like your job knows not all of you designy seekers will get jobs and $15/hr is better than free at a Starchitect firm.....
i use "design" here as educated. there is just as much design in other aspects of architecture starting with Building Technoligies all the way intozoning ordinances but your education at most places points to the Stars as the beacons of design - which is often just form and space and eye candy....
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