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awaiting_deletion

What is the working class?

The word on the street is - if you took the building super  position at 432 Park Ave you'd get a $250k salary for 24/7 indentured servitude for people who check in 4 times a year and their assistants 36 times a year for an art gallery called a fucking condo! 

16 feet shorter than the EMPIRE STATE building, mind you...

Empires on Persian rugs over finely crafted, relocated old world wood flooring into a modern box of cash.....casting shadows over Central Park is the definition of Power bitches

Olaf did tell you to put your money there.

Way to go VInoly, a man known for turning his private Jet around to make a design change and for working anyone to death at a decent salary....don't leave before 7pm you slackers - we can all see you from our open desks! 

A Canadian and I laughed our asses off walking by the underpaid shop workers in the basement of Vinoly's office, once or twice.....thanks for not hiring me ;)

damn them Canadians and all their social welfare!

 

Did anyone notice that white collars get fucked as much as blue collars?  sometimes it's better to work with your hands, no?

 

Why do the French always make a confirmation with a NO inquiry?

 

The illusion of White Collardhood was you could be one of them!

/\ 1968 my ass?  Yeah, you were totally there, dumpster diving with the plebes!

 

You work your balls off into maximum debt inservitude for what?  a fancy pants architect doodling for rich people and underpaying rich people's children to intern for a good name on their resume! 

White collar is working class - you fools.  [this would be my point]

Your brain is your hands. Your hands are their tools.  You give them up in exchange for consumer freedom. 

NOT freedom, just the freedom to earn to consume....so it's an exchange.....when does the illusion happen, when do you turn your thinking into CASH, is that when you become delusional and convinced you are one up on every other person on this planet!

God Bless America and the people we Elect! Trump is more revolutionary than you think, he may have to negotiate with the rest of us.

i'm moving off the grid and now I'm a security threat! (i posted the statement so get your panties out of a bind, no bigger fool than an agent of spydom, spies are stupid people anyway, that's why they spy, duh!)


What are the bargaining chips!

You don't break your back, so you break your mind!

You don't break your back, so you break your soul!

 

 

 

 

see date of map /\

Lebbeus Woods, Architect Who Bucked Convention, Dies at 72 By WILLIAM YARDLEYOCT. 31, 2012

 
Aug 29, 15 12:30 am
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

Jill Stein 2016

Aug 29, 15 9:26 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

from her plan

"Education as a Right:

Abolish student debt to free a generation of Americans from debt servitude. Guarantee tuition-free, world-class public education from pre-school through university. End high stakes testing and public school privatization."

Aug 29, 15 9:41 am  · 
 · 

Trump is more revolutionary than you think, he may have to negotiate with the rest of us.

"You're fired."

Negotiation over, get out.

Aug 29, 15 10:50 am  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

who destroyed the USFL (football league)? watch ESPN special.....Miles you hired.

Aug 29, 15 12:04 pm  · 
 · 

No ESPN here, or TV at all for that matter.

Ken - gotta love Stein but do you pick her over Bernie?

Aug 29, 15 2:52 pm  · 
 · 
drums please, Fab?

I read Jill's POWER TO THE PEOPLE! plan ... it sounds nice and everything but how's she gonna pay for all that?

Aug 29, 15 3:07 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞
Jill is the only person running that isn't "bought and bossed" Bernie still has his masters, that's how he's able to run as a Democrat. As for how "she" gonna pal pay for all that? She, ain't gonna pay for nothing, the fucking pieces of crap getting by on the backs the American workers are going to "pay for all that".
Aug 29, 15 4:44 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

after Trump destroys government Stein would have a chance.........Donald Trump played a key role in dissolving the USFL, a role he may be playing here in election. worth a watch....................apparently what was missed in my ramble was the role the virtual plays in alleviating riots of the working/thinking class.........no more beheadings of French Kings, just rants on facebook and twitter.....internet buffer

Aug 29, 15 4:44 pm  · 
 · 
JeromeS

the fucking pieces of crap getting by on the backs the American workers are going to "pay for all that".

 

does that mean real welfare reform?  I read an article about the value of welfare;  Ohio ranks 26th in welfare benefits (read:average)  The benefits work out to $12 and change an hour. Beats working for 8.25.  

 

When minimum wage gets boosted to $15, those welfare people are gonna be pissed...

Aug 29, 15 8:39 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞
Jerome, way to play; who is the most classist and racist on Archinect, but I think you're in a run for your money with Bulgarblogger, and j-laxative.
Aug 29, 15 8:43 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

i'm conflicted - well i'm not really Olaf - i just channel him  ;)

So i was in the deli the other day listening to the staff talk.  The guy slicing the meet starts noting how this deli was better than the other at $8.50 an hour. I was purchasing Gouda from Holland, maybe a 1/4 pound for $12 and was about to go get myself some good crafted beer, usually about $35 for a night.  $47/8.50 = 5.5 hours for the guy working behind the deli....

anyway, that's not why I'm conflicted....remember you're all working class now even at 6 digits a year, minimum wage is the equivalent to food rations....1 million poor people don't even make the earnings of one single wealthy person.....

but back to why I'm conflicted - I need this to apply differently....

 

from Friedrich Nietzsche's Thus Spoke Zarathustra (interesting translation)

 

The Famous Wise Ones (your elected officials)

 

The people have ye served and the people's superstition—NOT the truth!—all ye famous wise ones! And just on that account did they pay you reverence

And on that account also did they tolerate your unbelief, because it was a pleasantry and a by-path for the people. Thus doth the master give free scope to his slaves, and even enjoyeth their presumptuousness

But he who is hated by the people, as the wolf by the dogs—is the free spirit, the enemy of fetters, the non-adorer, the dweller in the woods

To hunt him out of his lair—that was always called "sense of right" by the people: on him do they still hound their sharpest-toothed dogs

"For there the truth is, where the people are! Woe, woe to the seeking ones!"—thus hath it echoed through all time

Your people would ye justify in their reverence: that called ye "Will to Truth," ye famous wise ones!

And your heart hath always said to itself: "From the people have I come: from thence came to me also the voice of God."

Stiff-necked and artful, like the ass, have ye always been, as the advocates of the people

And many a powerful one who wanted to run well with the people, hath harnessed in front of his horses—a donkey, a famous wise man

And now, ye famous wise ones, I would have you finally throw off entirely the skin of the lion!

The skin of the beast of prey, the speckled skin, and the dishevelled locks of the investigator, the searcher, and the conqueror!

Ah! for me to learn to believe in your "conscientiousness," ye would first have to break your venerating will

Conscientious—so call I him who goeth into God-forsaken wildernesses, and hath broken his venerating heart

In the yellow sands and burnt by the sun, he doubtless peereth thirstily at the isles rich in fountains, where life reposeth under shady trees

But his thirst doth not persuade him to become like those comfortable ones: for where there are oases, there are also idols

Hungry, fierce, lonesome, God-forsaken: so doth the lion-will wish itself

Free from the happiness of slaves, redeemed from Deities and adorations, fearless and fear-inspiring, grand and lonesome: so is the will of the conscientious

In the wilderness have ever dwelt the conscientious, the free spirits, as lords of the wilderness; but in the cities dwell the well-foddered, famous wise ones—the draught-beasts

For, always, do they draw, as asses—the PEOPLE'S carts!

Not that I on that account upbraid them: but serving ones do they remain, and harnessed ones, even though they glitter in golden harness

And often have they been good servants and worthy of their hire. For thus saith virtue: "If thou must be a servant, seek him unto whom thy service is most useful!

The spirit and virtue of thy master shall advance by thou being his servant: thus wilt thou thyself advance with his spirit and virtue!"

And verily, ye famous wise ones, ye servants of the people! Ye yourselves have advanced with the people's spirit and virtue—and the people by you! To your honour do I say it!

But the people ye remain for me, even with your virtues, the people with purblind eyes—the people who know not what SPIRIT is!

Spirit is life which itself cutteth into life: by its own torture doth it increase its own knowledge,—did ye know that before?

And the spirit's happiness is this: to be anointed and consecrated with tears as a sacrificial victim,—did ye know that before?

And the blindness of the blind one, and his seeking and groping, shall yet testify to the power of the sun into which he hath gazed,—did ye know that before?

And with mountains shall the discerning one learn to BUILD! It is a small thing for the spirit to remove mountains,—did ye know that before?

Ye know only the sparks of the spirit: but ye do not see the anvil which it is, and the cruelty of its hammer!

Verily, ye know not the spirit's pride! But still less could ye endure the spirit's humility, should it ever want to speak!

And never yet could ye cast your spirit into a pit of snow: ye are not hot enough for that! Thus are ye unaware, also, of the delight of its coldness

In all respects, however, ye make too familiar with the spirit; and out of wisdom have ye often made an almshouse and a hospital for bad poets

Ye are not eagles: thus have ye never experienced the happiness of the alarm of the spirit. And he who is not a bird should not camp above abysses

Ye seem to me lukewarm ones: but coldly floweth all deep knowledge. Ice-cold are the innermost wells of the spirit: a refreshment to hot hands and handlers

Respectable do ye there stand, and stiff, and with straight backs, ye famous wise ones!—no strong wind or will impelleth you

Have ye ne'er seen a sail crossing the sea, rounded and inflated, and trembling with the violence of the wind?

Like the sail trembling with the violence of the spirit, doth my wisdom cross the sea—my wild wisdom!

But ye servants of the people, ye famous wise ones—how COULD ye go with me!—

Thus spake Zarathustra

Aug 29, 15 9:28 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

b3, you are a piece of shit.  

Aug 29, 15 10:37 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

me being racist would mean that I would hate my own children and family so that is impossible.  

Aug 29, 15 10:42 pm  · 
 · 
JeromeS

When did expecting people to work for a living become classist?

Aug 29, 15 10:48 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

and lol at an "architect" talking about classism...Lol lol at that one.  

Aug 29, 15 10:48 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

JeromeS, the question is type of work and why for?...but I guess you and b3 got other stuff going on....this is the annoying bullshit conversations Trump seems to slice through...hey Slayer - Angel of Death just came on....working on website still.....anyway...

 

I'm just trying to place this correctly, if all lawyers, doctors, architects, accountants, etc...called themselves Working Class, who does that leave the poor and the ?

if all of us who work, agreed we were the same Class - Working and then did some legitimate unionizing, who does that leave?

 


 

Aug 29, 15 11:08 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

j-laxative; you're a racist cunt.

Aug 29, 15 11:10 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

Jerome, anyone pitting middle class vs. working poor, or poor is stoking the flames of class warfare. Doing the masters bidding. 

j-laxative; you're not a comedian, but your self-righteous bullshit is funny. All you had to do was apologize for the "beaner" comment, and I wouldn't thought you a racist.

Aug 29, 15 11:14 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

and then Slayer - Reign in Blood came on, a twofer

ok found an illustration.....divide the classes this way and then reference Nietzsche above....or you guys can keep yelling at each other while you probably care about the same shit.

Aug 29, 15 11:16 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

Jerome, anyone pitting middle class vs. working poor, or poor is stoking the flames of class warfare. Doing the masters bidding. 

Yes Beta.  Who's bitch are you (they), when you blame the poor for your circumstances. 

Hey, I'm not Blue Collar, I did the right thing, went to college and got a degree, went into debt and work my balls off everyday to pay interest, its the poor peoples fault! really?!?

yelling at all the wrong people man....get off the grid!

Aug 29, 15 11:19 pm  · 
 · 
JeromeS

the fucking pieces of crap getting by on the backs the American workers are going to "pay for all that".

 

so, who are you talking about?  

 

The rich? That ain't gonna happen. They own the game of politics and influence.  Why would they permit that to change?

Aug 29, 15 11:22 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

Jerome, that's exactly who I'm talking about. Bernie is talking to it, Jill is talking to it, and Trump, to an extent, is talking to it, but he can't be trusted.

Aug 29, 15 11:25 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

I grew up poor, and grew into the middle class based on my education, yet I am clinging onto the last rung of the ladder. I'm an architect, yeah, so what, and proud of it, but it doesn't mean I don't know poverty. I know it all too well, and am I afraid, yes, but I am not interested in blaming people on welfare, I've been on welfare as a teen.

Aug 29, 15 11:29 pm  · 
 · 

Historically the wealthy owned everything and the peasants slaved for them. With few exceptions this seems to be the basic model for human society.

Aug 30, 15 11:45 am  · 
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x-jla

^basic model of a centralized society...

Aug 30, 15 12:05 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

middle class is a buffer, an illusion. once you call yourself working class its a different thing. there are the owners, the workers,and the unfortunate. workers do stuff and get taxed for doing it,so sure its easy to get pissed off when you see those not doing stuff, but they are not the problem........but as a worker who takes care of themselves and family while serving the owners, why aren't the owners doing anything about the poor instead of setting up a political climate to blame the unfortunate......supposedely there are 400 families in the US that finance majority of the presidential campaigns.............those who own and don't work and ignore the facts are the grid. like a nice mutual fund the grid ensures their returns, they only need to funnel money in the right direction to keep making money..........beta i am with you on being poor, my father only in complete shame admitted taking checks from the government for a month or two - between my brothers and I we have 3 masters degrees and one PHD and nealry all of us do 6 digits, the youngest is finally showing up......i never blame the poor and i hold nothing against the kid i loaned 300 dollars to in high school to when i made $6 hr for not repaying and spending his cash on weed and meth instead,he always bent over backwards to take care of my cars after that....and later he was arrested for stealing a TV set to support his habit, but poor dad usually means poor kid....why?

Aug 30, 15 5:17 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

the point of working for a living is to improve your life and livelihood.  working should ultimately provide a better result than not working

as it is, wages have been pushed down to a point where, in a lot of cases, working hard for 40 hours a week or more means you're mired in debt, stuck in poverty, with basically no hope of getting out.  the option is to work hard and be in poverty, or go on welfare and be in poverty.  seems a waste of a life to work for someone else's gain without improving your own life.

so the conservative solution is to end welfare, so the choice is between poverty while enriching others and death.  i don't think that's a good position to put people in.  that leads to revolt with a bunch of people who have nothing but their life to give, which they know they'll probably end up losing anyway because they can't afford food and medicine and such.

minimum wage has to increase from where it is now, so working is seen as a better option than not working.  at some point, even some of the smarter rich people are going to understand how bad they're screwing things up, and want to fix it so they can hold on to their current positions.

Aug 30, 15 7:58 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
Curt, complicated subject. From a baseline level, people want to be comfortable and have nice things. That's why people buy into the idea of expensive education, home mortgage, etc. all of the systems that support civilization have become more and more complex. In the mean time, those with wealth and power have been changing government protection for workers to their benefit.

Marketing has only exacerbated and ingrained through mythology our collective materialism and want for better and newer.
Aug 31, 15 12:04 pm  · 
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no_form
Imo one of the most insidious things these days is the idea of "entrepreneur". These people have deluded themselves into thinking that being self employed is empowering. Even saying they have their own business. But the reality is that they are independent contractors scrambling even more than other white collar professionals to make money with a business license.
Aug 31, 15 12:10 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

rob_c, self employment is great.  There are many factors that can make it incredibly difficult, but the overall benefits are worth it.  Mostly, the freedom of schedules.  Example, I have to make an unexpected trip this week...no permission needed.

Aug 31, 15 12:48 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

a "job" creates an illusion of security...but in reality...you only need to piss one person off to lose a job...you need to piss off many clients to lose a business...

Aug 31, 15 12:50 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
Sure you have your own schedule but when you do your taxes is your income much different from someone at an office with your level of experience? And how much more did you struggle? And in terms of experience an institution such as an office can do so much more that can benefit you as well.
Aug 31, 15 12:52 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
Well I think depending on the size of the company it takes more than pissing one person off to get fired. But it is true that job security is more unstable. It is a slower path to ruining your business than pissing off the boss more than once.
Aug 31, 15 12:56 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
*ruining your business is a slower path
Aug 31, 15 12:56 pm  · 
 · 
Sorrowful Giuseppe

Ok,

Can anyone define what is a greed?

 

 

 

P.S. none of you guys know here what is poverty, unless you were a kid from east newyork, Detroit or some backwoods in Appalachia.

I am sure Miles and even Olaf grew up in nice suburbs.

Aug 31, 15 1:39 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞

Are we really going to start comparing scars Unamuno? Do you know what it's like to be from East New York, Appalachia?

Everyone's experience is their own.

Aug 31, 15 1:49 pm  · 
 · 
Sorrowful Giuseppe

b3

Yes, I do know what it is like to be from East New York... I lived there.

And as a person who has traveled across the south and has done many portions of Appalachia trails I have seen extreme poverty among the blacks and among the whits as well. At one point I even though it can't be the US...

So I do not teach me what is to be a poor kid, because I was one.

 

Now, please I ask you again guys, what is a greed?

​Hey,Olaf, you seem to be an intellectual man ( a man who reads Nietzsche has to be one), please have a mercy on me and explain who and what defines greediness?

Aug 31, 15 2:12 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

http://bfy.tw/GUt

i don't think it has to be complicated.

Aug 31, 15 2:39 pm  · 
 · 
∑ π ∓ √ ∞
Unamuno, I've been homeless, and have and know what government cheese, powdered milk and did stamps are, don't lecture me.
Aug 31, 15 2:50 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
Nice pissing contest guys...the bigger issue is why is there so much disparity in wealth? With the self reinforcing logic of "I earned my money I deserve" screw everyone else, what could be done to make things more prosperous for citizens? My go to is government regulation and consumer protections.
Aug 31, 15 3:10 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

I have been poor too, but US poverty is much different from the poverty I experienced while living briefly in east Africa.  It is a much more despite and immediate form of poverty.  Govt aid is why there is a difference.  Without it, US poverty would look more like 3rd world poverty where a simple tooth ache could mean death.  I am far from a socialist, but only a fool would think that a country as large as the US could function without some basic socialist programs. 

These programs save us money in the long run and ultimately affect our safety as much as the poor who utilize them.  Would you want a favela in NYC?  What about a Soweto like shanti town in LA?  Who will pay for the increase in crime, disease, etc?  Socialist programs / safety nets are the basis of first world nations not some shameful burden

Aug 31, 15 3:12 pm  · 
 · 
x-jla

That said, "big govt" can also be a huge burden on the poor.  Mostly in terms of upward mobility.  Over regulation is a huge barrier for many lower income people.  The ability to utilize the city as a place of commerce, formally or informally, is an incredibly empowering thing.  How many Chinese, Russian, Italian, African immigrants made there way by selling goods on the streets of ny?  What was needed to start?  A milk crate, some blankets...  Regulations on venders, zoning laws, licensing, etc. create restrictions that prevent this basic form of mobility.  So many other examples at all different levels...But I remember NYC circa 1987...a time where you could literally shop on the street...It was incredible.  A city who's streets were a market...everyday urbanism at its best...It worked on so many levels...it was gritty but it worked for the people who needed it most...Now the rules have changed.  NYC is sterile, corporate...Can the little old Chinese lady still sell miniature slider turtles on Canal st. with out getting tazed to death by the police? 

Aug 31, 15 3:26 pm  · 
 · 
awaiting_deletion

like how this thread went off grid......unamano i will get to the nietszche question later. the white guy behind Olaf never lived in a nice American suburb until he was 30 years old. poor rural areas or cities or third world countries. drive by shooting in broad daylight across the street once. rats and a mosque and only Turkish and Yugoslavian neighbors just around from a punk bar in an all white country........you are stupid to suggest that anyone making a certain point doesnt know whats it like. just plain stupid. so i am not cerain you will understand any intellectual point i may make about nietzsche given your apparent capacity to be prejudice and not think.

Aug 31, 15 3:53 pm  · 
 · 
no_form
LA is up for regulation on unpermitted food vendors. Even if it passes it's said that the law will be turning a blind eye to it. Hopefully it won't pass. It's an important part of the informal economy here. As is the thousands of yard sales every weekend or even week day (not the typical once a year bourgeois ones). Similar economics to NYC it seems jla-x but different style.

Re: social services. One time charity from billionaires looks great but if that were the only funding for basic needs america would be 3rd world indeed
Aug 31, 15 3:54 pm  · 
 · 
sideMan

I think that this quote has some relevance to the topic.

Edward Abbey

“If America could be, once again, a nation of

self-reliant farmers, craftsmen, hunters, ranchers, and artists,

then the rich would have little power to dominate others.

Neither to serve nor to rule: That was the American dream.”

I would like to add that the "rich" are also by and large today's government as well.

Aug 31, 15 4:25 pm  · 
 · 
Sorrowful Giuseppe

@b3

I don't lecture you. I don't care.

It is different to personally experience poverty VS to know there are some people out in the Bronx that are poor and looking at them through hipster glasses..

Olaf

Well, you just described my neighborhood and yourself as well. 

http://i.imgur.com/yKGw4vD.jpg

Aug 31, 15 5:32 pm  · 
 · 
Sorrowful Giuseppe

curtkram

How far have you made it in your life with helping google?

p.s. if Larry and Sergey were guys like you they would never be able to create google...

Aug 31, 15 5:41 pm  · 
 · 
JLC-1

unamuno, greed is citizens united and americans for prosperity.

Aug 31, 15 5:41 pm  · 
 · 
curtkram

was it hard clicking the link i provided unamuno?  do you still have questions about what greed is?  is there a reason you don't want to accept the simple explanation?

i don't help you with google to help myself, i just do it to help you.  i don't expect to go further in my life by helping you.

Aug 31, 15 5:51 pm  · 
 · 
Sorrowful Giuseppe

@JCL-1

Who says that?

So you define for others what is greed what is not?

Oh wait, I have figured it out!!! I just used a tool curtkram introduced me and look what I found!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A 

Aug 31, 15 5:53 pm  · 
 · 

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