As a new graduate with a M_Arch should I even consider job titles such as CAD-Person, Draftsperson etc..? I know technically these are different from an "Intern Architect," but how often are these titles used interchangeably. Thanks
try to get a job somewhere you'd be happy to say thats where you are working at and fits your persona. very important..
if you are responding to ads you'll notice most places are looking for cad or draftsperson because thats the most labor intensive part of architect's practice.
intern architect sounds good and more open to development. calling yourself a draftsman would sound like you've already found your niche in the profession. basically you are an intern architect. no?
if you have the degree, don't call yourself a drafter or you will be positioned as such and it will be hard to break from this! you can send resumes to firms that don't have advertised positions you know. find firms you like and want to work for and try them out. if you have no luck and need a job, only then work as a drafter if you want.
This occupation of ours pays less attention to your degree, and more to the amount of work experience. So right out of school you are going to find yourself as an intern. I know it sucks. But that is how it works. Without work experience you are only valuable for your youthful creativity and ability to make coffee and run prints. Firms characterize people without experience as investments. They are upset that schools aren’t teaching more real life related ideals, instead of philosophy. The M_Arch will get you more money eventually, but not at your first job. You have to prove the M_Arch.
I went through the same situation a few years back. Everyone is in the same category right out of school, but people separate fast after the first year. Cream rises to the top.
1. Don't label yourself. List your qualifications.
2. Find a small firm that has established & knowledgeable architects who you feel will make good mentors and soak it up.
3. Find a firm that will pay you relatively well and is forthcoming about the future money/ advancement you desire.
4. Work hard, be the best at all things, become indispensable.
Also, you should try to remain with the firm you choose as long as possible. Obviously employers appreciate a broad range of experience, so long as it's not a result of turnover.
1. its an insult to call any degreed architect an intern no matter if ncarb and aia say it ok. a borrowed carry over from other professions.
.....'intern'='we can pay you less because your in training' bs. the true secret is 'you will always be in training......'
2. a draftsman, or sometimes called technition in uk, is significantly different than an architect and has a very broad, less defined meaning. i have know draftspersons[in the structural disciplines] that are worth their weight in gold and are oftened paid much more than architects and engineers in the same office. then again you could be a millwork draftman producing shop drawings. generally little or no responsibilty for the design and underlying codes/criteria.
Draftsperson is such an old fashioned term. Intern is just down right insulting to anyone who has toiled in an architecture education and gotten a professional degree.
For a CAD monkey I usually refer to them as architectural techs. If they went to a technical college they like to use that "tech" term.
If you have a degree don't degrade yourself with those titles. Call yourself an architect. You are in every sense except for that professional license. In engineering once you graduate you are an engineer, regardless if you've passed your PE yet. To John Q Public you are an architect.
Within professional circles just say you are working on getting your license. Nuff said. Most of the older fossils in the profession are ignorant of the mess that NCARB has made getting licesure anyway.
while in school, i believe it was in my professional practice class that we were taught that it was inapropriate to call yourself an architect until you were licensed.
i referred to myself as 'intern architect' until registration to clients and professional collegues. to laymen, i called myself architect, and if they wanted more info, i went into explaining the registration process and IDP.
there is a big difference between draftsmen and intern architects, IMO. a draftsman is not on track to becoming an RA, whereas an intern architect is enrolled in IDP, has a professional degree, and plans on taking and passing the exams.
sure NCARB is a complete disaster and almost a joke, but they do call it Intern Development Program for a reason.
i got an e-mail some time ago - two years? from NCARB that stated said that architecture degree holders who were working for an architecture firm and pursuing the professional license and enrolled in IDP could call themselves an architect because of issues with the degrading term intern architect and the assumumptions made with the term by the general public that you are still in college, or worse, even high school. am i the only one who got this or was I sleeping and got this e-mail in my dream? I think it makes total sense, but obviously it's not catching on.
I never got that email but I was told to call myself a small "a" architect instead of a big "A" Architect by my first boss.
Definition of intern: A student or a recent graduate undergoing supervised practical training.
Public Persona Definition of Intern: Not a professional, student or apprentice.
DO NOT USE THAT WORD - YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL! I have argued this point with the NCARB. Using that word hurts the profession and it directly hurts the young in the profession. IDP should be renamed to be more appropriate.
Have you ever thought about what a client is thinking when an "intern" presents a design? They are wondering why they are paying this fee for if all the work can be done by a non-professional. That in turn makes it hard to negotiate higher fees which in turn makes it tough to pay "interns" decent starting salaries. It's a bad bad cycle and it gets me almost as angry as seeing a new corportate big box store going up.
well said A about the fees - seems obvious right? I do wonder what the clients think when they get thier invoice with X hours by Intern A cost mega $Z. I wouldn't like it.
it is interesting to note the other definition of the word intern as a verb means to confine...
An intern implies being incomplete and immature not yet started in the profession. 3+ years is a long time to be held in this limbo of nothingness.
I (half) jokingly told my work place to put STAFF as my title rather than INTERN on my business cards!
Not to steal your post topic frels, but what can we do to change this term already? I'm serious. It's an embarrassment to the profession.
intern, draftsman, designer- call it what you want; you'll be doing the same thing as everyone else fresh out of school. gotta pay your dues.
and no, you can't call yourself an architect. the hell i went thru to get my license has made me a snob about it. the registration boards are very clear on it too, you cannot call yourself an architect, under any circumstances, unless you are licensed, just like a doctor. that isn't open to debate.
when did architecture become a giant frat house? hazing the newbies (like myself) only creates more of a rift between the young professionals and the elders (you). i'll prefer to pay my dues through going out and getting lunch for everyone in the office for another 5 years. (as long as i am an architect going out and getting lunch for everyone in the office for the next five years)
The word "intern" isn't terrible. What is terrible is that how the public perceives that word. The 42nd president and his intern fiasco did none but further tarnish the meaning of intern in the general population.
In other fields once you get your degree you get your title. Get your biology degree and you are a biologist. Get your psychology degree and you are a psychologist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but architecture is the only degree you can obtain and there after not legally be allowed to call yourself an architect.
Maybe the root of the problem is educating the public. Everyone knows about lawyers taking the bar exam or doctors completing their residency. Why does the public only have this myopic Hollywood view of how the architecture profession works?
In the short term I would prefer to see the "intern" title dropped. To differentiate between licensed & non licensed we probably would have to modify the term of a licensed architect. When you go to websites like salary.com they have these terms like Architect I, II, & III. What's wrong with something like that? Maybe Sr. Architect & Jr. Architect.
As for IDP - I'd like to see something more cohesive with the ARE.
i didn't say anything about hazing. i not talking about some thinly veiled caste system, seniority or any other corporate bullshit like that. my point is you don't know shit starting out after school so you have to start at the bottom and slowly learn.
...i agree there should be more of a classification system, i know guys who have been working 20-25 years for firms, and they aren't registered, and they know more than 99.9% of the 'registered' architects. are they less of an architect because they haven't taken a test? no. besides, the ARE is no genius test as most would have you think (took it all at once back in the paper and pencil day, no big deal, you don't need a 100% on it, just passing, which is something like a 70% or so..)
we as a profession need to get over the internal snobbery and squaking about the 'you can't call yourself that' persnickity mentality,
a Phd graduate can call themselves a 'doctor', so i think
the levels as someone mentioned above would be apropos: (architect I, architect II,etc..) and they would actually mean something/refer to actual experience level so the public could make value judgements.
if i were a client i would rather have an unregistered architect VII working on my project team than a registered architect V any day.....
definately need something different, the classification systems are way too moronic now....
i once had an interview at a fine firm in chicago that did primarily residential architecture and interiors. the first question that the interior desgn principal asked me was "what is an intern architect?" even people in the profession don't know what it means. normally, i just tell people that i am an architect. at work i think of myself as a project manager because that;s what i do, although not always very well. good luck.
I say if you currently doing IDP you are an intern. Next, there are those who finished IDP and are slowly moving thru the exams. To me that deserves a different title just because it is an accomplishment that distingiushs you from those who haven't. I think NCARB calls it an architectural candidate. I think there is nothing wrong calling yourself an architect to someone your not proposing business with. It just helps cut throught the BS of explaining to someone who probably really doesn't care. But, calling yourself an architect in a business setting is a misrepresentation. You want some guy operating on you who was fresh out of school and calling himself a doctor
First off, I am not an architect or student of this field, so please do not mind me not knowing what NCARB or any other technical term is if I use it incorrectly or totally out of context (or out of touch with reailty).
Now, it seems that the profession of Architecture has much strife in its regulations and standards according to your discussions. What should a new graduate be called? How do we determine expertise? What does licensing mean? All questions that all professions have to face like an internal monster to bring unity and recognition from peers and clients.
First, you have to decide what "kind" of profession you want to be. Do you want to be like a group of doctors where only a Ph.D and licensing make you able to practice? Lawyers are much the same way with their state bar exams. Should Architects be allowed to only practice in certain states? maybe you do that already, I don't know. Anyway, I don't think you want to be doctors or lawyers because from what I hear, un-licenced senior and juniors are turning in their work to clients. You wouldn't want your Nurse to be doing the surgery, now would ya? This is also important for what to call your recent graduates, later on.
So, let's look at other professions. Information Technology personnel are practically required to be certified in any specific area that they wish to practice in. Actually its currently more for recognition and job placement since seniors with loads of experience have no use for certification in any IT area. But does this sound like Architecture? When IT personnel are hired, there are usually "levels" like Support I, II, III and so on. Each job title can have different levels depending on the company's business strategy and needs, of course. The good thing about this is that each person in IT can tells where they stand immediately and know where the next step in the ladder is and how to get there (take a test). Its VERY structured in that sense. This sounds good, but does Architecture really have a need for a varitible cornicopia of testing and certifications in each single part of its practice?
No, I believe that Architecture resembles no profession better than Accounting, yep, Accounting. Accountants graduate with Bachelor's of Science and proceed to work for a firm or company doing whatever...bean-counting, auditing, taxes, etc. There are some certifications here and there, but nothing rivals the almighty CPA exam. That's Certified Public Accountant for those not in the know. This is not required to be an accountant, just required to advance in accounting. No matter what you're doing, you will try to become a CPA and get the benefits that go along with it like the ability to practice certain tasks like federal taxes for your friend, Joe Shmoe, down the street or corporate multi-millions even. Accountants get job titles based on what they are doing, not what they would like to be called, but most of the time, the word accountant or auditor is in there. (Auditing is kinda the anti-accountant since they look for the screw ups in Accounting). Since they at least have that in their job title, I think most are satisfied with their degrees because they now can call themselves that at least. I know you Architect students reeeeally want that big A in your job title so you know you've arrived. But like I mentioned, even jr. accountants still know there are mountains to climb and a CPA exam to pass.
OK, still here? So, Accountants also have an almighty board of standards makers. Can't remember their name but they are basically the best-of-the-best and develop the GAAP or Generally Accepted Accounting Practices. Of course, calling it "generally accepted" is loosely saying in reality, "Do This Or You're In Big Trouble, Mister!" This Board of Great Accounts, as I'll call them, do their best to keep up with trends in the industry and develop new rules and STANDARDS ("standard" is a big word in GAAP) according to what is needed and what may have happened each year (Enron!).
So, maybe Architecture needs to first, figure out why you don't like this NCARB (am I on a diet?) and replace them. Then get your standards together if they aren't already. Next, use that licencing thing to your advantage. Don't make it "You're either a licenced Architect or just a bum", but you're still and architect as you were before, but now you're recognized as a peer and allowed to do the cool stuff. It seems to me that you can basically take Accounting and draw a new world for Architecture straight from their blueprints (all puns intended).
I know its not nearly as easy as I say it is cause I don't know about 90% of what I'm talking about.
Lastly, if you're going to let "interns" turn in the work, then I agree with the comment above, don't call them that. And the number one reason, already given, is that you are confusing the client...and guess who's paying the bills! Interns in EVERY other profession is a student still in school trying to nail down a job before he has any professional skills at all. Interns are bums, graduates are not.
"Junior Architect" should surfice since that is a recognizable title in other professions (Jr. Accountant, Jr. Analyst, etc.). Or just call them by what they do, Drafter, Design, Architect, or whatever you guys do :) and then use the license like, "Hi, my name is J.L.Webb - RA". Having everyone licenced may be a good idea though. If the old pros won't take it, then make a cutoff point for lack of experience. If you have 5 or less years of practicing experience, get licenced.
Strawbeary: I got a letter of that type from NCARB several years ago, but what it said is that with those the qualifications you listed can use the term "Architect" within the phrase "Intern Architect". What was going on at that point was that both NCARB and the AIA were using the terms "Intern Architect" in their own documents whilst some state boards objected to this based on having the word "Architect" in there at all.
Recently I was reading the minutes of my state's Architecture Board meetings (I was looking for some info unrelated to this discussion - not reading them for fun!) and they do in fact go after unlicensed people using the term "architect". However, none of these people were interns. They were: businesses with the "architect" or "architects" in their name, businesses advertising "architectural services", and people who have been registered architects in the past but who have let their registration fees lapse but are still practicing.
As far as the issue of whether to go after jobs advertising for CAD people: what I'd suggest is applying to these firms (because you know they're hiring) but emphasizing that you're pursuing registration, concerned with IDP, etc. See what they say about what your role would be. If it is in fact JUST a CAD job then don't take it.
Our firm has been guilty of posting single ads for "CAD specialist/Intern Architect"- but in our eyes the duties of one or the other would be slightly different. Remember that the employer doesn't always have the exact role figured out - sometimes they're waiting to see who applies before they decide exactly how to utilize them. We wouldn't necessarily give the same tasks to a tech school CAD person than to an M.Arch grad.
loafeto
Firms characterize people without experience as investments. They are upset that schools aren’t teaching more real life related ideals, instead of philosophy. The M_Arch will get you more money eventually, but not at your first job. You have to prove the M_Arch.
I went through the same situation a few years back. Everyone is in the same category right out of school, but people separate fast after the first year. Cream rises to the top.
Probably best if this topic is begun in new thread, but you incite a question or, desire for elaboration, from you or anyone else who sees value in MAs, theory, etc.
why is that theory so valuable? to me, "theory" often looks like indecipherable nonsense. or if relevant to design, it often looks like long-winded self-evident stuff.
I won't say that reading theory is completely useless, because many people might enjoy it for reasons similar to reading gothic novels. or reading sonnets. or reading Vital Speeches, http://www.votd.com :-)
Still though, learn to draft and detail and think mechanically. It will be your best tool. Plus it seems the truely good designers are truely capable mechanics so latch on to that old stodgy bastard in your firm, the one who talks about the poor quality of the details and how no one can draft - and milk his brain for the info in it. The designing will come later, when you work for yourself or have an equity stake in the firm.
Feb 21, 05 3:54 pm ·
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Intern Architect vs Draftsperson
As a new graduate with a M_Arch should I even consider job titles such as CAD-Person, Draftsperson etc..? I know technically these are different from an "Intern Architect," but how often are these titles used interchangeably. Thanks
try to get a job somewhere you'd be happy to say thats where you are working at and fits your persona. very important..
if you are responding to ads you'll notice most places are looking for cad or draftsperson because thats the most labor intensive part of architect's practice.
intern architect sounds good and more open to development. calling yourself a draftsman would sound like you've already found your niche in the profession. basically you are an intern architect. no?
by the way, as an intern architect, you'll be doing a lot of drafting.
if you have the degree, don't call yourself a drafter or you will be positioned as such and it will be hard to break from this! you can send resumes to firms that don't have advertised positions you know. find firms you like and want to work for and try them out. if you have no luck and need a job, only then work as a drafter if you want.
This occupation of ours pays less attention to your degree, and more to the amount of work experience. So right out of school you are going to find yourself as an intern. I know it sucks. But that is how it works. Without work experience you are only valuable for your youthful creativity and ability to make coffee and run prints. Firms characterize people without experience as investments. They are upset that schools aren’t teaching more real life related ideals, instead of philosophy. The M_Arch will get you more money eventually, but not at your first job. You have to prove the M_Arch.
I went through the same situation a few years back. Everyone is in the same category right out of school, but people separate fast after the first year. Cream rises to the top.
Good Luck
1. Don't label yourself. List your qualifications.
2. Find a small firm that has established & knowledgeable architects who you feel will make good mentors and soak it up.
3. Find a firm that will pay you relatively well and is forthcoming about the future money/ advancement you desire.
4. Work hard, be the best at all things, become indispensable.
Also, you should try to remain with the firm you choose as long as possible. Obviously employers appreciate a broad range of experience, so long as it's not a result of turnover.
1. its an insult to call any degreed architect an intern no matter if ncarb and aia say it ok. a borrowed carry over from other professions.
.....'intern'='we can pay you less because your in training' bs. the true secret is 'you will always be in training......'
2. a draftsman, or sometimes called technition in uk, is significantly different than an architect and has a very broad, less defined meaning. i have know draftspersons[in the structural disciplines] that are worth their weight in gold and are oftened paid much more than architects and engineers in the same office. then again you could be a millwork draftman producing shop drawings. generally little or no responsibilty for the design and underlying codes/criteria.
Draftsperson is such an old fashioned term. Intern is just down right insulting to anyone who has toiled in an architecture education and gotten a professional degree.
For a CAD monkey I usually refer to them as architectural techs. If they went to a technical college they like to use that "tech" term.
If you have a degree don't degrade yourself with those titles. Call yourself an architect. You are in every sense except for that professional license. In engineering once you graduate you are an engineer, regardless if you've passed your PE yet. To John Q Public you are an architect.
Within professional circles just say you are working on getting your license. Nuff said. Most of the older fossils in the profession are ignorant of the mess that NCARB has made getting licesure anyway.
while in school, i believe it was in my professional practice class that we were taught that it was inapropriate to call yourself an architect until you were licensed.
i referred to myself as 'intern architect' until registration to clients and professional collegues. to laymen, i called myself architect, and if they wanted more info, i went into explaining the registration process and IDP.
there is a big difference between draftsmen and intern architects, IMO. a draftsman is not on track to becoming an RA, whereas an intern architect is enrolled in IDP, has a professional degree, and plans on taking and passing the exams.
sure NCARB is a complete disaster and almost a joke, but they do call it Intern Development Program for a reason.
i got an e-mail some time ago - two years? from NCARB that stated said that architecture degree holders who were working for an architecture firm and pursuing the professional license and enrolled in IDP could call themselves an architect because of issues with the degrading term intern architect and the assumumptions made with the term by the general public that you are still in college, or worse, even high school. am i the only one who got this or was I sleeping and got this e-mail in my dream? I think it makes total sense, but obviously it's not catching on.
so what if you have a degree but dont want to become licenced, and want to toil under the oppression that is a principal?
brian frels - not that I am suggesting you market yourself as an architect in your job search with comment above.
I never got that email but I was told to call myself a small "a" architect instead of a big "A" Architect by my first boss.
Definition of intern: A student or a recent graduate undergoing supervised practical training.
Public Persona Definition of Intern: Not a professional, student or apprentice.
DO NOT USE THAT WORD - YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL! I have argued this point with the NCARB. Using that word hurts the profession and it directly hurts the young in the profession. IDP should be renamed to be more appropriate.
Have you ever thought about what a client is thinking when an "intern" presents a design? They are wondering why they are paying this fee for if all the work can be done by a non-professional. That in turn makes it hard to negotiate higher fees which in turn makes it tough to pay "interns" decent starting salaries. It's a bad bad cycle and it gets me almost as angry as seeing a new corportate big box store going up.
well said A about the fees - seems obvious right? I do wonder what the clients think when they get thier invoice with X hours by Intern A cost mega $Z. I wouldn't like it.
it is interesting to note the other definition of the word intern as a verb means to confine...
An intern implies being incomplete and immature not yet started in the profession. 3+ years is a long time to be held in this limbo of nothingness.
I (half) jokingly told my work place to put STAFF as my title rather than INTERN on my business cards!
Not to steal your post topic frels, but what can we do to change this term already? I'm serious. It's an embarrassment to the profession.
good points A, but i still don't think that intern is such a terrible word. i agree with you 100%, but just don't consider it taboo.
so what would be a better name for IDP?
JAT - junior architect training
ATP - architect training program
ADP - architect development program
ADP gets my vote
intern, draftsman, designer- call it what you want; you'll be doing the same thing as everyone else fresh out of school. gotta pay your dues.
and no, you can't call yourself an architect. the hell i went thru to get my license has made me a snob about it. the registration boards are very clear on it too, you cannot call yourself an architect, under any circumstances, unless you are licensed, just like a doctor. that isn't open to debate.
when did architecture become a giant frat house? hazing the newbies (like myself) only creates more of a rift between the young professionals and the elders (you). i'll prefer to pay my dues through going out and getting lunch for everyone in the office for another 5 years. (as long as i am an architect going out and getting lunch for everyone in the office for the next five years)
The word "intern" isn't terrible. What is terrible is that how the public perceives that word. The 42nd president and his intern fiasco did none but further tarnish the meaning of intern in the general population.
In other fields once you get your degree you get your title. Get your biology degree and you are a biologist. Get your psychology degree and you are a psychologist. Correct me if I'm wrong, but architecture is the only degree you can obtain and there after not legally be allowed to call yourself an architect.
Maybe the root of the problem is educating the public. Everyone knows about lawyers taking the bar exam or doctors completing their residency. Why does the public only have this myopic Hollywood view of how the architecture profession works?
In the short term I would prefer to see the "intern" title dropped. To differentiate between licensed & non licensed we probably would have to modify the term of a licensed architect. When you go to websites like salary.com they have these terms like Architect I, II, & III. What's wrong with something like that? Maybe Sr. Architect & Jr. Architect.
As for IDP - I'd like to see something more cohesive with the ARE.
Maybe ARP - architect registration program
meversusyou, i'm 31.
i didn't say anything about hazing. i not talking about some thinly veiled caste system, seniority or any other corporate bullshit like that. my point is you don't know shit starting out after school so you have to start at the bottom and slowly learn.
100% agree with you about not knowing much, but it seems that the term starts being a status symbol of 'not knowing shit.'
it just has a negative connotation, imo
...i agree there should be more of a classification system, i know guys who have been working 20-25 years for firms, and they aren't registered, and they know more than 99.9% of the 'registered' architects. are they less of an architect because they haven't taken a test? no. besides, the ARE is no genius test as most would have you think (took it all at once back in the paper and pencil day, no big deal, you don't need a 100% on it, just passing, which is something like a 70% or so..)
we as a profession need to get over the internal snobbery and squaking about the 'you can't call yourself that' persnickity mentality,
a Phd graduate can call themselves a 'doctor', so i think
the levels as someone mentioned above would be apropos: (architect I, architect II,etc..) and they would actually mean something/refer to actual experience level so the public could make value judgements.
if i were a client i would rather have an unregistered architect VII working on my project team than a registered architect V any day.....
definately need something different, the classification systems are way too moronic now....
i once had an interview at a fine firm in chicago that did primarily residential architecture and interiors. the first question that the interior desgn principal asked me was "what is an intern architect?" even people in the profession don't know what it means. normally, i just tell people that i am an architect. at work i think of myself as a project manager because that;s what i do, although not always very well. good luck.
I say if you currently doing IDP you are an intern. Next, there are those who finished IDP and are slowly moving thru the exams. To me that deserves a different title just because it is an accomplishment that distingiushs you from those who haven't. I think NCARB calls it an architectural candidate. I think there is nothing wrong calling yourself an architect to someone your not proposing business with. It just helps cut throught the BS of explaining to someone who probably really doesn't care. But, calling yourself an architect in a business setting is a misrepresentation. You want some guy operating on you who was fresh out of school and calling himself a doctor
First off, I am not an architect or student of this field, so please do not mind me not knowing what NCARB or any other technical term is if I use it incorrectly or totally out of context (or out of touch with reailty).
Now, it seems that the profession of Architecture has much strife in its regulations and standards according to your discussions. What should a new graduate be called? How do we determine expertise? What does licensing mean? All questions that all professions have to face like an internal monster to bring unity and recognition from peers and clients.
First, you have to decide what "kind" of profession you want to be. Do you want to be like a group of doctors where only a Ph.D and licensing make you able to practice? Lawyers are much the same way with their state bar exams. Should Architects be allowed to only practice in certain states? maybe you do that already, I don't know. Anyway, I don't think you want to be doctors or lawyers because from what I hear, un-licenced senior and juniors are turning in their work to clients. You wouldn't want your Nurse to be doing the surgery, now would ya? This is also important for what to call your recent graduates, later on.
So, let's look at other professions. Information Technology personnel are practically required to be certified in any specific area that they wish to practice in. Actually its currently more for recognition and job placement since seniors with loads of experience have no use for certification in any IT area. But does this sound like Architecture? When IT personnel are hired, there are usually "levels" like Support I, II, III and so on. Each job title can have different levels depending on the company's business strategy and needs, of course. The good thing about this is that each person in IT can tells where they stand immediately and know where the next step in the ladder is and how to get there (take a test). Its VERY structured in that sense. This sounds good, but does Architecture really have a need for a varitible cornicopia of testing and certifications in each single part of its practice?
No, I believe that Architecture resembles no profession better than Accounting, yep, Accounting. Accountants graduate with Bachelor's of Science and proceed to work for a firm or company doing whatever...bean-counting, auditing, taxes, etc. There are some certifications here and there, but nothing rivals the almighty CPA exam. That's Certified Public Accountant for those not in the know. This is not required to be an accountant, just required to advance in accounting. No matter what you're doing, you will try to become a CPA and get the benefits that go along with it like the ability to practice certain tasks like federal taxes for your friend, Joe Shmoe, down the street or corporate multi-millions even. Accountants get job titles based on what they are doing, not what they would like to be called, but most of the time, the word accountant or auditor is in there. (Auditing is kinda the anti-accountant since they look for the screw ups in Accounting). Since they at least have that in their job title, I think most are satisfied with their degrees because they now can call themselves that at least. I know you Architect students reeeeally want that big A in your job title so you know you've arrived. But like I mentioned, even jr. accountants still know there are mountains to climb and a CPA exam to pass.
OK, still here? So, Accountants also have an almighty board of standards makers. Can't remember their name but they are basically the best-of-the-best and develop the GAAP or Generally Accepted Accounting Practices. Of course, calling it "generally accepted" is loosely saying in reality, "Do This Or You're In Big Trouble, Mister!" This Board of Great Accounts, as I'll call them, do their best to keep up with trends in the industry and develop new rules and STANDARDS ("standard" is a big word in GAAP) according to what is needed and what may have happened each year (Enron!).
So, maybe Architecture needs to first, figure out why you don't like this NCARB (am I on a diet?) and replace them. Then get your standards together if they aren't already. Next, use that licencing thing to your advantage. Don't make it "You're either a licenced Architect or just a bum", but you're still and architect as you were before, but now you're recognized as a peer and allowed to do the cool stuff. It seems to me that you can basically take Accounting and draw a new world for Architecture straight from their blueprints (all puns intended).
I know its not nearly as easy as I say it is cause I don't know about 90% of what I'm talking about.
Lastly, if you're going to let "interns" turn in the work, then I agree with the comment above, don't call them that. And the number one reason, already given, is that you are confusing the client...and guess who's paying the bills! Interns in EVERY other profession is a student still in school trying to nail down a job before he has any professional skills at all. Interns are bums, graduates are not.
"Junior Architect" should surfice since that is a recognizable title in other professions (Jr. Accountant, Jr. Analyst, etc.). Or just call them by what they do, Drafter, Design, Architect, or whatever you guys do :) and then use the license like, "Hi, my name is J.L.Webb - RA". Having everyone licenced may be a good idea though. If the old pros won't take it, then make a cutoff point for lack of experience. If you have 5 or less years of practicing experience, get licenced.
Strawbeary: I got a letter of that type from NCARB several years ago, but what it said is that with those the qualifications you listed can use the term "Architect" within the phrase "Intern Architect". What was going on at that point was that both NCARB and the AIA were using the terms "Intern Architect" in their own documents whilst some state boards objected to this based on having the word "Architect" in there at all.
Recently I was reading the minutes of my state's Architecture Board meetings (I was looking for some info unrelated to this discussion - not reading them for fun!) and they do in fact go after unlicensed people using the term "architect". However, none of these people were interns. They were: businesses with the "architect" or "architects" in their name, businesses advertising "architectural services", and people who have been registered architects in the past but who have let their registration fees lapse but are still practicing.
As far as the issue of whether to go after jobs advertising for CAD people: what I'd suggest is applying to these firms (because you know they're hiring) but emphasizing that you're pursuing registration, concerned with IDP, etc. See what they say about what your role would be. If it is in fact JUST a CAD job then don't take it.
Our firm has been guilty of posting single ads for "CAD specialist/Intern Architect"- but in our eyes the duties of one or the other would be slightly different. Remember that the employer doesn't always have the exact role figured out - sometimes they're waiting to see who applies before they decide exactly how to utilize them. We wouldn't necessarily give the same tasks to a tech school CAD person than to an M.Arch grad.
Firms characterize people without experience as investments. They are upset that schools aren’t teaching more real life related ideals, instead of philosophy. The M_Arch will get you more money eventually, but not at your first job. You have to prove the M_Arch.
I went through the same situation a few years back. Everyone is in the same category right out of school, but people separate fast after the first year. Cream rises to the top.
Probably best if this topic is begun in new thread, but you incite a question or, desire for elaboration, from you or anyone else who sees value in MAs, theory, etc.
why is that theory so valuable? to me, "theory" often looks like indecipherable nonsense. or if relevant to design, it often looks like long-winded self-evident stuff.
I won't say that reading theory is completely useless, because many people might enjoy it for reasons similar to reading gothic novels. or reading sonnets. or reading Vital Speeches, http://www.votd.com :-)
i give an A+ to A. (unless grade inflation requires me to give out A++s)
thanks for presenting solid reasons why employers would avoid using label "intern".
42nd president and his intern fiasco did none but further tarnish the meaning of intern in the general population.
get the coffee! smoke a cigar! you're a good smoker, you're promoted! whereever did you find this excellent decaf carrot juice? run these prints.
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JAT reads too much like Janitorial something or other.
good point about legal titiles. (A's grade reduced to an A+)
though, legalities makes a finding "positive" (but accurate) title more challenging.
a Phd graduate can call themselves a 'doctor'
should call themselves "doctor of something or other" (Doctor of Janitation (JD), for example)
but i prefer to call MDs: "MDs", or "physicians", or GPs. (if GP is appropriate)
dentists? DDS. vets? DVM.
engineering grads have to go through an EIT ("Engr in training", test and experience) process.
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auditors!
Arthur Andersen?
Still though, learn to draft and detail and think mechanically. It will be your best tool. Plus it seems the truely good designers are truely capable mechanics so latch on to that old stodgy bastard in your firm, the one who talks about the poor quality of the details and how no one can draft - and milk his brain for the info in it. The designing will come later, when you work for yourself or have an equity stake in the firm.
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