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How do we stop this kind of thing? Is minimum wage really such a burden for these firms?

jp22

Construction Management Intern: 

We are a design/build company in Manayunk, seeking a part-time intern to assist in all aspects of residential architectural design and project management. The position is available starting immediately. The ideal candidate will be currently enrolled in a construction management, architecture, or interior design degree program, with interest in all aspects in the construction process. Intern will be responsible for assisting a project team which consists of Architectural Designers, Office Management, Project Manager, Project Engineer, and a Superintendent on a construction management projects. All applicants should be interested in contributing to both design and technical aspects of each project, and should have a willingness to contribute ideas and hard work.

A large portion of this position will involve traveling to L&I in center city to submit, pick-up, and check on progress of permit submittals. Reliable transportation is required. As this position is expected to continue into the summer, a local candidate is preferred. 

Duties will include: 
• Assist with drawing & document coordination. This would entail scanning and plotting construction documents and permits, keeping project documents organized, and distributing documents to all parties involved with a project. 

• Assist in preparing detailed scopes of work for new projects, cost estimating, and permit application submittals. 

• Phone skills/interpersonal skills: be able to interact with architects, city inspectors, L&I plan reviewers, trade contractors, and vendors. 

• Computer skills -- experienced with Word, Excel, and email. Ability to use AutoCad to edit and produce architectural site plans and construction documents is highly preferred.

• Ability to take direction and work independently without supervision.

As this is a part-time position, hours are flexible which can accommodate your school or work schedule. However, we would prefer if you are available at least 2-3 consecutive days per week, with hours totaling 25-40 hours. Our hours are M-F 9am - 5:30pm. 

Initially, this internship position will be unpaid. There is a good possibility of the position transitioning into a full-time, paid position as training/skills progress.

To apply, please e-mail us describing your availability and interest this field, along with your resume in a PDF file. No phone calls please.

 
Feb 10, 15 9:53 am
x-jla

public shaming and harrassment.  post name of firm and contact info.  Send them hundreds of fake resumes, random pictures, thoughts, etc.   

Feb 10, 15 10:03 am  · 
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x intern

As long as people keep working for free there will be plenty of people willing to let you.  

If its an unpaid internship you shouldn't be doing work you should be learning,  in this case it is actually costing the employer money so it makes since you wouldn't get paid but a decent firm will pay you at least going rate for a unskilled college kid and give you raises as you start to become more useful.

Feb 10, 15 10:03 am  · 
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Sarah Hamilton

But no phone calls, please, cause that would be rude.....

Feb 10, 15 10:03 am  · 
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First, you name the name of this company who is seeking upaid labor.  Then, you send them a *polite but firm* email with a link to the Department of Labor Fact Sheet #71 on Unpaid Internships.

http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs71.pdf

This ad is looking in particular for a student, which means they might be able to provide class credit for the internship work, which would be legal, but....they certainly don't mention already having an arrangement with a school to provide this credit.
 

This is so disheartening. We've got yet another unpaid labor ad along with a post made on the Forum half an hour ago asking for advice on a cheap place to live in Tokyo while working unpaid for a "top firm". It just makes me furious.

Feb 10, 15 10:04 am  · 
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DeTwan

Lol, there is an idiot born every minute. I wonder what average rent is for a one bedroom around Philly...

Feb 10, 15 10:05 am  · 
 · 
Non Sequitur

JP, how can we best tell this company to anally insert several large cacti plants?

Feb 10, 15 10:05 am  · 
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jp22

Are we allowed to post email? 

This is the craigslist email:

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/egr/4884416400.html

I suppose I could send them a fake resume and try to get the name of their firm...But they were smart enough to not include it in the original posting. 

I know this kind of thing will always exist, but it's just disappointing. There are so many real non-profits in Philly that students could be working with. And instead there are firms like this out there trying to take advantage of students. 'Work independently without supervision' for free doesn't sound like it's tied to a university. At least the economy is improving. Hopefully that makes it less common. 

Feb 10, 15 10:11 am  · 
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Wilma Buttfit

You get to drive your own car to run their errands for free! That is abusive, shame on them. 

Feb 10, 15 10:13 am  · 
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DeTwan

I think it is funny that they say this is a part time gig....BUT we would like you to be able to work consecutive days in a row and anywhere from 25-40hrs a week.....FOR FREE....

8hrs a day X 5 days a week= WHAT!?

Feb 10, 15 10:22 am  · 
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Menona

Hopefully, the "you get what you pay for" concept will ring true for these despicable types.  Of course it won't, because dirtbags generally "get away with it" (in my experience anyway).  But it's something to hope for.  It would be wonderful to hear some clown had their business ruined by a mistake which was made by an "intern" they had doing work they didn't want to pay for.

There's an extension of this problem in actual paid labor too.  I had an offer for a job with a 60 person outfit where the expectation was stated as 51 weeks a year of 45 hour weeks.  If you've got 60 people working an extra 5 hours a week for free, that amounts to 7.5  "Free" extra employees.  For every person that's working an 80 hour week, there's one more person out of work.

Feb 10, 15 10:37 am  · 
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chigurh

I saw a job post on cl a few weeks back, construction company, seeking a "draftsman", the post followed up with a list of desired skills similar to that of a licensed architect with 15+ years of experience.  I can only imagine what they were expecting to pay for the position.

I guess it is just wishful thinking on their part, trying to get somebody for next to nothing by calling the position something other than it is.  I hope anybody qualified knows what they are worth and gives a job like that the big f u.

Funny thing is, you know some large scale construction company knows exactly what our services are worth and shows the true nature of them just being total pieces of shit for trying to circumvent architectural services by trying to hire a "draftsman" in-house.  Asshats.  

Feb 10, 15 11:23 am  · 
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natematt

I always like to chime in here and point out that the "unpaid" adds are usually less offensive than stipend adds, because they usually assume very little skill/experience, and promise learning opportunity. That said, this add seems like they should be offering at least something, but at least they aren't asking for much.

However, many of the stipend adds demand a great deal of skill/experience and offer pay at or below minimum wage. Ridiculous.

Feb 10, 15 11:37 am  · 
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x-jla

yo,  that job sound like it jus right fo me. im good with computers and shit like that.  pay is not a problem cause I sell mad weed on the side  @makin it rain.  word, anyway hit me up.  peace

j-dog 

 

sending...

Feb 10, 15 12:22 pm  · 
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x-jla

Good Day,

My name is Sir Aurthur Wellington.  I am a recent graduate of Harvard Universrity.  What drew me to your add is that it is "unpaid."   This is perfect for someone of my status because I have too much money and it seems that I have run out of storage space.   I commend you for being so generous to let me work for you without burdening me with more cash to hold.  Feel free to contact Jeeves my butler/personal assistant should you have any questions  

Feb 10, 15 12:34 pm  · 
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LOL seriously you guys. I sent a very polite and serious response to the Craigslist posting. But humor is never the wrong tack to take!

jla-x I cannot stop laughing!

Feb 10, 15 12:47 pm  · 
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x-jla

:)

Feb 10, 15 12:51 pm  · 
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Schoon

Not only does this happen often in Philly, it's almost always skewed towards the architectural design or construction management side of things. Luckily I'm on the engineering side so it wasn't too difficult to find a decently paid internship, but almost none of my friends in the architecture program (or any design-related program really) could find paid internships. And DeTwan, lowest I've seen hovers around $450 a month. That is if you want to live on 46th...

Feb 10, 15 2:04 pm  · 
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citizen

As outlandish as the posting is, nobody's forced to work for free.  If someone is foolish enough to work 40 hours a week gratis, they've got far worse problems than an exploitative "employer."

Feb 10, 15 2:16 pm  · 
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sameolddoctor

I just sent them my resume - caked in poop.

Feb 10, 15 2:37 pm  · 
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citizen, you're right that nobody is forced to work for free, but it's straight-up illegal to have someone do unpaid labor for you unless it falls within the DoL guidelines. Should we not try to end this practice?

Feb 10, 15 2:50 pm  · 
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jp22

Just heard back. 

http://www.unitedmakers.com/about.php

 

>United Makers is a full service building company devoted to high quality construction in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. In this historic city we know the building methods and navigate the legal processes to keep your project on schedule and up to code. We have built a strong reputation for smart design, honest materials, and realistic green solutions. Our eye for detail can not only add beauty and utility, but also increase efficiency to stand out in today's challenging real estate market. Whether your building project focuses on a single home or a large scale development, United Makers has the experience and capability to take your project from concept to completion.

Feb 10, 15 3:00 pm  · 
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citizen

We should try to end it, Donna, yes.   And your first post is just the thing for this.

My point was more about the fact that, as long as there are people willing to work for free, these postings will show up.  An assault on both supply and demand is needed, it would seem.

Feb 10, 15 3:22 pm  · 
 · 

First and foremost, full-time students don't have three consecutive days to work in the week during the 8AM to 6PM windows to work 8 full hours? When does that ever happen in a university that runs its classroom course Monday through Friday within the hours of 8AM to 6PM. 

Typically two to 3 courses will always be M-F and 2-3 courses would be Tues & Thursday for a usual 4-5 course load per term or semester. 

Impressive fantasy.

Feb 10, 15 3:25 pm  · 
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Schoon

Richard,

I believe that job postings like those are either meant to cater to students who are looking for summer internships, or to those who's universities have a co-op program built in to their curriculum (like mine).  But even then the position has to be evaluated by the school to make sure that the company isn't trying to take advantage of students.  This job posting, however, would definitely not make it through certification.  Companies aren't allowed to offer unpaid internships that exceed 24 hours / week, at least through my school's system.

Feb 10, 15 3:51 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

Why do people shit on the interns because of their cocaine hooker habit?

Feb 10, 15 5:07 pm  · 
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...

Feb 10, 15 5:10 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

Olaf, my hooker's cocaine habit appears to be reasonable.

Feb 10, 15 5:14 pm  · 
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awaiting_deletion

Cocaine for your hooker or livelihood for some poor student with massive amount of debt who becomes a cocaine hooker. Ha.

Feb 10, 15 5:21 pm  · 
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Saint in the City

Yes, the pristine standards of the DOL.  Donna's right, companies really should follow the DOL's example.  Oh, wait -- the DOL exempted themselves from the Fair Labor Standards Act.   

Feb 10, 15 5:22 pm  · 
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ArchNyen

send those bastards an email to this link =)

Feb 14, 15 9:00 am  · 
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