I am 35 years old, have a 4-year degree in Architecture and 9 years of experience in and around the architecture field, incl. several years with one famous three-letter firm in Chicago. In 2009, the Great Recession has forced me out of the profession for 4 years and I had to move to Europe in order to find a suitable job with an architecture firm (project management/business development). However, now that things seem to be picking up back home, I want to come back to the US and try to re-build my career and my life.
The problem is, though, that I have become very disillusioned with the architectural profession because of its rather low pay and high susceptibility to economy/market fluctuations. It is very frightening, especially if one has a family or a child to provide for. However, in all the years being out of the profession I was not able to come up with any meaningful alternatives to architecture other then real estate / development. I did work in sales for a few years, but I always knew it was temporary and that I had no real future there.
Given that I am 35, I understand that the window of opportunity to rebuild my career is closing down fast - it's either now or probably never. Therefore, I am trying to decide whether I should go back to architecture or try to transition to real estate (something that I have had a genuine interest in for a number of years, actually).
Although I feel that my skills have eroded to a degree due to the gap that I have had, I am 75% done with my IDP and could qualify to start taking ARE's maybe within a year or two. So, theoretically I can get licensed by the age of 40. That is if I go back to Chicago where the IL NCARB does not require a professional degree for licensing provided that I show increased number of training hours (which I do have).
Or, I try to transition to real estate development by enrolling into a 1-year MSRE program and hoping to get a job as an assistant development project manager or an analyst (hopefully making at least 60K/year). I have already started doing quite a bit of self-study by reading textbooks on development, real estate finance, etc. and I have developed a pretty good understanding of how everything works. I also plan to get a ULI certificate in pro-forma modelling and eventually learning Argus. So I understand what I would be doing if I do switch fields.
The locations I am considering for both options are Chicago and Charlotte, NC.
The problem is, though, that I have become very disillusioned with the architectural profession because of its rather low pay and high susceptibility to economy/market fluctuations
You already know the problems with being a conventional licensed architect. Nothing is likely to change in the long run. Employment conditions may improve somewhat for a few years, but real estate is extremely cyclical and at the relatively young of 35 you haven't seen the last ball-busting downturn. If it's painful now, imagine when you are 50 or 60. There will come a time when age discrimination will prevent you from getting reemployed after one of these little parties, and then you will really be in a fix. Is this really how you want to live? Count me among the naysayers who will counsel you to bail out now.
There are alternatives, which have been discussed endlessly on this site: developer, leasing agent, realtor, appraiser, construction management, civil engineering, construction lender, etc. Good luck. You aren't the only architect to face this agonizing decision. Architecture does kind of get in your blood and it's hard to let go. But, it really is not a very viable occupation for most of us.
If job security is your primary aim, you may not have any more stability in a RE development firm during an economic downturn than would be the case in a design firm. If architects don't have work it's usually because developers aren't doing anything. Sure, you'll likely make more money in RE (and that can provide a financial cushion if you're a saver) but the same factors that cause design firms to downsize also cause RE firms to downsize. I say this having worked in both fields.
It sucks, but our profession and related industries all suffer vicious, and simultaneous, economic cycles on a fairly regular basis.
FYI - IL has changed their requirement. You need the professional degree now (as of last year unless they pushed it back a little more). They no longer accept 4 year plus extra experience.
I don't want to tell you what to do but heres what is making me leave the profession.
After struggling for 3 years after college, being underpaid and bored at a corporate firm doing roll-out retail then working for 15$/hr on 1099's at a small firm I have finally landed what seems to be the dream architecture job. High pay compared to peers, benefits, full time, W2's, high end projects that do want design and clients/firm owner willing to pay when I bill overtime + any experience I ask for. Wow right? Yet I realized a few things.
1)Even though I'm at the highest paying job out of all my architecture peers, it's still really average pay, I could probably make more teaching CAD/Revit at a community college with less hours and more vacation time.
2)Before anyone says "Its not about the money, you should be passionate" The job is still boring. Yes I get to do some design for a week and do some cool renderings but then it's a month of drafting ADA stalls and flashing under a stucco window sill. Once you get over the high of finishing your first CD packet on your own all the projects feel the same. And looking at the older guys, the Project Managers/Principals it just seems like more advanced busy work with bigger headaches. The only job I've agreed that the low pay was worth it for the "Passion" was an ex-girlfriend who was a trainer at SeaWorld. She'd be bummed during bills but would send me stoked picture texts at work with dolphins and Beluga Whales while I was drafting a wood floor to tile detail. So Passionate? About CAD? About coordinating drawings with consultants who don't look at the damn plans?
3)Un-stability, Yeah I make good money now, but what about when the owner retires or theres another downturn. We're already 5 years into a "recovery" so the next should occur pretty soon, globally it's already started in Europe and China's bubble is pretty close to bursting as well. And then I'm back to fighting with the others for drafting positions at 15$/hr on 1099's.
So basically if the career did offer a creative outlet with a living I'd be all for telling you to do it. But why not get a good paying job and do competitions and side architecture projects on the weekend? I mean thats what everyone in architecture already does, so why not switch out the boring drafting job for banker and then on the weekend design and hire the $15/hr 1099 guy from Odesk.
Those are good observations. They are some of the very reasons I left architecture as well. Sitting behind a desk all day is horrible on your body, even when you stand up during work behind a computer (which I did). I see people still in the profession that I graduated with that look like toads, and slugs, banana slugs. None of them look health, and for the most part I never hear how awesome their architecture jobs are, even licensed folk. They are all drones for someone else, big or small firm. Most are alcoholics... it's bad.
My high school English teacher was a former architect. I found out when I asked him to write a college recommendation and he strongly encouraged me to consider a different field of study. I took the recommendation and ignored the advice ;)
Study the career of Roger Staubach, the former Dallas Cowboy quarterback. He has made a wonderful career in the real estate business, provided careers for hundreds of people, and has a personal reputation for integrity that far surpasses any notable architect.
Midlander, I make fine art now. I know how weird it sounds. And yes, probably not the most ideal thing to move into. BUT, I am my own boss, I feel like control of my life again, I feel like I am sculpting my future more so with every once if blood, sweat, and tears I put into this adventure. Life is not miserable anymore, yes, it is still challenging. More so than any office I worked for, and the rewards are MUCH better than any experience I had in the architecture field. I travel a lot, I mean a lot. I put over 30k on a vehicle, I'm in a different town or city every other weekend, but I talk with real people. I converse with actual humans that are interested in my work. All my other jobs would rarely let "us" in on meetings, and if so it was to make minute meeting notes or model in place with the client there and when done my boss would say, "okay Danton, back to your cubicle"! I am going into my second year doing the art. Things are still on edge, but my life doesn't sound like the definition of insanity anymore.
I wish I heard more stories about how awesome doing architecture is, but unfortunately you're either sitting at the top, or you're just a pigeon CAD/BIMing away turning into that slug.
Check out my website, and I love criticism! My skin is tough from years in the architecture field.
Don't get me wrong. I love architecture, and aspire to do it. But I can't participate in a market where upward mobility is non-existent. I basically see my art as architecture on a smaller scale. If I can create a stir with my art, who says my architecture wouldn't do so. Gotta learn to crawl...
DeTwan - nice work. I'm glad you've found a way to do that full time. If you want some criticism I'd say go more minimalist with your website - the catalog fonts are kind of distracting. How do you cut the metal - do you send it out to a fabricator?
What's your typical day like? I love painting and occassionally sell some stuff but couldn't imagine sitting by myself making these things every day. I would miss going into an office with other people and having things to argue and complain about.
DeTwan, spotted a error on your website, should be abandoned with an -ed, instead of "abandon granny flat". 2 loc's, both on the about page. Fun stuff otherwise, good luck.
Thank you for taking a look over my website. I am no web designer and I am using weebly's free template to design. I do look forward to really dialing it in over the next year or so. Perhaps even paying for some help.
As for day to day, there is no routine, just get stuff done, whatever it may be. I can tell you that I do sleep at least 10 hours a night! Sometimes 12. What I have learned is that it is much harder to drive yourself, compared to working for someone else who will feed you work and tell you what to do. That is definitely the hardest thing, agreeing in your head that you are doing the right thing, and to go ahead and execute.
And tint, you nailed it. Archinect is my place to go for arguing and complaining. I'd like to think that I am just sounding an alarm on an industry that has many faults and misconceptions.
Jan 17, 15 9:53 am ·
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Architecture or Real Estate?
Hi.
I am 35 years old, have a 4-year degree in Architecture and 9 years of experience in and around the architecture field, incl. several years with one famous three-letter firm in Chicago. In 2009, the Great Recession has forced me out of the profession for 4 years and I had to move to Europe in order to find a suitable job with an architecture firm (project management/business development). However, now that things seem to be picking up back home, I want to come back to the US and try to re-build my career and my life.
The problem is, though, that I have become very disillusioned with the architectural profession because of its rather low pay and high susceptibility to economy/market fluctuations. It is very frightening, especially if one has a family or a child to provide for. However, in all the years being out of the profession I was not able to come up with any meaningful alternatives to architecture other then real estate / development. I did work in sales for a few years, but I always knew it was temporary and that I had no real future there.
Given that I am 35, I understand that the window of opportunity to rebuild my career is closing down fast - it's either now or probably never. Therefore, I am trying to decide whether I should go back to architecture or try to transition to real estate (something that I have had a genuine interest in for a number of years, actually).
Although I feel that my skills have eroded to a degree due to the gap that I have had, I am 75% done with my IDP and could qualify to start taking ARE's maybe within a year or two. So, theoretically I can get licensed by the age of 40. That is if I go back to Chicago where the IL NCARB does not require a professional degree for licensing provided that I show increased number of training hours (which I do have).
Or, I try to transition to real estate development by enrolling into a 1-year MSRE program and hoping to get a job as an assistant development project manager or an analyst (hopefully making at least 60K/year). I have already started doing quite a bit of self-study by reading textbooks on development, real estate finance, etc. and I have developed a pretty good understanding of how everything works. I also plan to get a ULI certificate in pro-forma modelling and eventually learning Argus. So I understand what I would be doing if I do switch fields.
The locations I am considering for both options are Chicago and Charlotte, NC.
I would be most grateful for any opinions!
The problem is, though, that I have become very disillusioned with the architectural profession because of its rather low pay and high susceptibility to economy/market fluctuations
You already know the problems with being a conventional licensed architect. Nothing is likely to change in the long run. Employment conditions may improve somewhat for a few years, but real estate is extremely cyclical and at the relatively young of 35 you haven't seen the last ball-busting downturn. If it's painful now, imagine when you are 50 or 60. There will come a time when age discrimination will prevent you from getting reemployed after one of these little parties, and then you will really be in a fix. Is this really how you want to live? Count me among the naysayers who will counsel you to bail out now.
There are alternatives, which have been discussed endlessly on this site: developer, leasing agent, realtor, appraiser, construction management, civil engineering, construction lender, etc. Good luck. You aren't the only architect to face this agonizing decision. Architecture does kind of get in your blood and it's hard to let go. But, it really is not a very viable occupation for most of us.
dynamo - you may want to consider the following.
If job security is your primary aim, you may not have any more stability in a RE development firm during an economic downturn than would be the case in a design firm. If architects don't have work it's usually because developers aren't doing anything. Sure, you'll likely make more money in RE (and that can provide a financial cushion if you're a saver) but the same factors that cause design firms to downsize also cause RE firms to downsize. I say this having worked in both fields.
It sucks, but our profession and related industries all suffer vicious, and simultaneous, economic cycles on a fairly regular basis.
My advice - do what you love and enjoy.
Good luck.
I don't want to tell you what to do but heres what is making me leave the profession.
After struggling for 3 years after college, being underpaid and bored at a corporate firm doing roll-out retail then working for 15$/hr on 1099's at a small firm I have finally landed what seems to be the dream architecture job. High pay compared to peers, benefits, full time, W2's, high end projects that do want design and clients/firm owner willing to pay when I bill overtime + any experience I ask for. Wow right? Yet I realized a few things.
1)Even though I'm at the highest paying job out of all my architecture peers, it's still really average pay, I could probably make more teaching CAD/Revit at a community college with less hours and more vacation time.
2)Before anyone says "Its not about the money, you should be passionate" The job is still boring. Yes I get to do some design for a week and do some cool renderings but then it's a month of drafting ADA stalls and flashing under a stucco window sill. Once you get over the high of finishing your first CD packet on your own all the projects feel the same. And looking at the older guys, the Project Managers/Principals it just seems like more advanced busy work with bigger headaches. The only job I've agreed that the low pay was worth it for the "Passion" was an ex-girlfriend who was a trainer at SeaWorld. She'd be bummed during bills but would send me stoked picture texts at work with dolphins and Beluga Whales while I was drafting a wood floor to tile detail. So Passionate? About CAD? About coordinating drawings with consultants who don't look at the damn plans?
3)Un-stability, Yeah I make good money now, but what about when the owner retires or theres another downturn. We're already 5 years into a "recovery" so the next should occur pretty soon, globally it's already started in Europe and China's bubble is pretty close to bursting as well. And then I'm back to fighting with the others for drafting positions at 15$/hr on 1099's.
So basically if the career did offer a creative outlet with a living I'd be all for telling you to do it. But why not get a good paying job and do competitions and side architecture projects on the weekend? I mean thats what everyone in architecture already does, so why not switch out the boring drafting job for banker and then on the weekend design and hire the $15/hr 1099 guy from Odesk.
Those are good observations. They are some of the very reasons I left architecture as well. Sitting behind a desk all day is horrible on your body, even when you stand up during work behind a computer (which I did). I see people still in the profession that I graduated with that look like toads, and slugs, banana slugs. None of them look health, and for the most part I never hear how awesome their architecture jobs are, even licensed folk. They are all drones for someone else, big or small firm. Most are alcoholics... it's bad.
^What are both of you doing now?
My high school English teacher was a former architect. I found out when I asked him to write a college recommendation and he strongly encouraged me to consider a different field of study. I took the recommendation and ignored the advice ;)
Study the career of Roger Staubach, the former Dallas Cowboy quarterback. He has made a wonderful career in the real estate business, provided careers for hundreds of people, and has a personal reputation for integrity that far surpasses any notable architect.
Midlander, I make fine art now. I know how weird it sounds. And yes, probably not the most ideal thing to move into. BUT, I am my own boss, I feel like control of my life again, I feel like I am sculpting my future more so with every once if blood, sweat, and tears I put into this adventure. Life is not miserable anymore, yes, it is still challenging. More so than any office I worked for, and the rewards are MUCH better than any experience I had in the architecture field. I travel a lot, I mean a lot. I put over 30k on a vehicle, I'm in a different town or city every other weekend, but I talk with real people. I converse with actual humans that are interested in my work. All my other jobs would rarely let "us" in on meetings, and if so it was to make minute meeting notes or model in place with the client there and when done my boss would say, "okay Danton, back to your cubicle"! I am going into my second year doing the art. Things are still on edge, but my life doesn't sound like the definition of insanity anymore.
I wish I heard more stories about how awesome doing architecture is, but unfortunately you're either sitting at the top, or you're just a pigeon CAD/BIMing away turning into that slug.
Check out my website, and I love criticism! My skin is tough from years in the architecture field.
DantonRezosDesigns.com
Don't get me wrong. I love architecture, and aspire to do it. But I can't participate in a market where upward mobility is non-existent. I basically see my art as architecture on a smaller scale. If I can create a stir with my art, who says my architecture wouldn't do so. Gotta learn to crawl...
DeTwan - nice work. I'm glad you've found a way to do that full time. If you want some criticism I'd say go more minimalist with your website - the catalog fonts are kind of distracting. How do you cut the metal - do you send it out to a fabricator?
What's your typical day like? I love painting and occassionally sell some stuff but couldn't imagine sitting by myself making these things every day. I would miss going into an office with other people and having things to argue and complain about.
midlander, all of your arguing and complaining needs can be taken care of on archinect, no?
DeTwan, spotted a error on your website, should be abandoned with an -ed, instead of "abandon granny flat". 2 loc's, both on the about page. Fun stuff otherwise, good luck.
Midland & Tint,
Thank you for taking a look over my website. I am no web designer and I am using weebly's free template to design. I do look forward to really dialing it in over the next year or so. Perhaps even paying for some help.
As for day to day, there is no routine, just get stuff done, whatever it may be. I can tell you that I do sleep at least 10 hours a night! Sometimes 12. What I have learned is that it is much harder to drive yourself, compared to working for someone else who will feed you work and tell you what to do. That is definitely the hardest thing, agreeing in your head that you are doing the right thing, and to go ahead and execute.
And tint, you nailed it. Archinect is my place to go for arguing and complaining. I'd like to think that I am just sounding an alarm on an industry that has many faults and misconceptions.
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