I would like to get some tips and talk about your experiences with clients. Mainly for architects who have worked closely with clients before.
Here's one of my experiences which I did not enjoy and would like a few feedbacks.
I am currently working as a freelance design consultant for a restaurant along with a project manager whom they have hired. He is also a friend of mine. The relationship between me and client was very good at first as well as with the project manager. But after the designs were confirmed and the construction started, the client started to disappear often. We would not be able to contact the client at all in the case where we would need some confirmation of the design changes on the site. As well as to contact for some payments to be made so that construction can continue. She wouldn't answer her calls at all. Then she would appear suddenly and demanded to be finished in a few weeks. With no payments made for the contractor. Then she would change her mind and move back the opening date. And pay the contractor only then. It has been more than once she has disappeared. And we all try to adapt to her decision. Then on the last two weeks of the finalized opening date, she hired an operations manager of the restaurant, who has apparently had experience in working at a bar/restaurant. The manager then demanded a larger bar. The bar I have designed gave enough space for at least two bartenders and shelves on the bottom. With standard dimensions. I have no prior experience of designing a bar but I followed all the standard dimensions and size which fits perfectly in the space I was provided for the restaurant. Then the manager came in last minute, blaming me for the design. Was it my fault that I did not design a bigger one? Was I suppose to hire an operation manager myself and ask? or was it the client fault for not hiring the manager in the first place? The design fees I got paid and the amount of work I had to provide for this project was very unfair. The client approached me saying this will be a budgeted project with a certain amount of number that they had to keep. So I decided to charge them low and kept design simple. However, as the design develops, she demanded more creative design which leads to more complex detailing and frequent supervision for the site. But I kept going on and did not charge extra as I do not want to burn bridges with this client.
So I don't know whether I was going at this all wrong. or the client was just being a bit of a *****. any tips, suggestions, experience sharing with any kind of clients would be greatly appreciated.
To start. Think of the interview as a two-way discussion. They need to sell you that they'll be a decent client and at least understand business dealings. Two major redflags: 1) "I've already created a rough layout, so there shouldn't be any design." and 2) cheap like they are shopping professionals based entirely on price. The combo of those two tells me they have no clue what we do and seriously undervalue our profession as a drafting house... so they'll be pita clients. I refer them to architects I don't like very much; "too busy you know... angry birds and all". Learn to identify clients in over their heads and have a fee structure/contract that reflects that learning curve.
And yes, you approached it wrong. it's like every relationship: If you play a doormat, you will be walked over. A doormat never says no, bends over backwards, etc. Bullies will find you and 'make you' do stuff for them. The natural reaction from clients is to not know where your boundaries are. Learn to say No, learn how to communicate dissatisfaction and know when it's time to tell the client you have to stop work and focus on generating income (service paying clients). And on the flip side, make sure they know when you are doing them a favor and should be charging more. I particularly like showing it on the invoice as a discount or knocked down rate.
It's ok. You can't satisfy every client, particularly if you are choosing ones who want the world and don't want to pay for it.
there is often a big gap in what you perceive to be valuable and what your client perceives to be valuable. when the client wants you to spend more time that adds value to their project, one option is to charge them more. that suggests there is value to your time. another is to provide that service without a fee, which suggests there isn't much value to your time.
your design fee was low in part because you agreed to add scope to your services without adding cost right? that isn't necessarily unfair if it's what you want to do.
as far as the bar size, it sounds like you worked within the constraints you had, and i assume you were always honest with the owner about your design decisions and experience. i doubt you did anything wrong. if someone new is entering the design process and wants to contribute, then i think that's great. you can offer a revised fee based on a per-hour rate or a new lump-sum to provide the new design that meets the new design and coordination requirements. or you can tell the operations manager to learn how to do their job and work with the bar you've already designed.
Restaurant clients invariably suck. I've had two good ones, a trusting local couple that owned the underlying real estate (which even with a tight budget and schedule gave them an incentive to do good work) and two brothers who were honestly doing it on the cheap, so I did some work for free and spent a year eating unbelievable penne con pomodoro and fresh Napoleons.
Finish the project. Build rapport with the contractor. Bill for work outside the original scope including changes by owner but don't be antagonistic about it. Your job is to see the project through to successful completion. The client's job is to facilitate your work. At what point it becomes utterly impossible for you to continue is a personal call. Meditation helps. Keep your ego out of it and learn from the experience.
Restaurant clients and residential clients who don't have a day job to keep them busy are invariably the worst.
My advice on your current restaurant project is think about what you want to get out of it in the end (good photographs of particular elements for your portfolio for example) and concentrate your efforts on those elements and let the things you don't care as much about slide. Also you should charge additional services for redesigning the bar since they gave you different parameters to design for after you already designed it.
My further advice, since it sounds like you are just starting out, is to never take on a residential project for a client who doesn't work unless your fees are large enough and you are patient enough by nature to receive phone calls and emails from them every 15 minutes 24 hours a day seven days a week.
Everything you described are classic 'screw your fee' maneuvers and more importantly it sounds like the client had no clue. The blame you for bar size is what the client wanted to hear to beat you up etc...don't burn the bridge, send a nice thank you - blah blah... and if there is a next time ask for a huge retainer up front and disappear once your hours match payments to date. If they want it done yesterday make them pay for it.
Hello2015: From your troubles, I'm guessing you probably put together a very informal and poorly defined contract that neither party understood well enough to execute.
you got hired as a glorified draftsman...sounds like you didn't know it.
your PM "friend" is probably throwing you under the bus on a whole bunch of shit....watch out. It is a huge liability and you could get sued if you are a licensed architect.
Finish the piece of shit and move on. In the future don't bother doing work unless you are driving the truck (first person contact and confidant with the client). Don't ever do work as a third party hire for any PM or contractor, a draftsman bitch, that is a bad deal for you as the designer, getting two people, client and PM/contractor to shit on your head.
2) Note in the agreement that work beyond the defined scope will incur additional fees and the basis for them (hourly, percentage, negotiated), and that no additional work will be performed without the consent of owner. This protects both parties.
3) At the first request for work beyond the scope ask for written authorization to incur additional fees. If you do more w/o consent it's a gift.
4) If the scope is ambiguous you eat it. If you perform beyond scope w/o consent it's a gift.
It's all in the initial definition of scope, which requires carefull thought and presentation. It's also case by case - on some projects, or for some owners, you may not want to bang them for extras.
Dec 31, 14 12:34 pm ·
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How to maintain a good relationship with clients
Hi everyone,
I would like to get some tips and talk about your experiences with clients. Mainly for architects who have worked closely with clients before.
Here's one of my experiences which I did not enjoy and would like a few feedbacks.
I am currently working as a freelance design consultant for a restaurant along with a project manager whom they have hired. He is also a friend of mine. The relationship between me and client was very good at first as well as with the project manager. But after the designs were confirmed and the construction started, the client started to disappear often. We would not be able to contact the client at all in the case where we would need some confirmation of the design changes on the site. As well as to contact for some payments to be made so that construction can continue. She wouldn't answer her calls at all. Then she would appear suddenly and demanded to be finished in a few weeks. With no payments made for the contractor. Then she would change her mind and move back the opening date. And pay the contractor only then. It has been more than once she has disappeared. And we all try to adapt to her decision. Then on the last two weeks of the finalized opening date, she hired an operations manager of the restaurant, who has apparently had experience in working at a bar/restaurant. The manager then demanded a larger bar. The bar I have designed gave enough space for at least two bartenders and shelves on the bottom. With standard dimensions. I have no prior experience of designing a bar but I followed all the standard dimensions and size which fits perfectly in the space I was provided for the restaurant. Then the manager came in last minute, blaming me for the design. Was it my fault that I did not design a bigger one? Was I suppose to hire an operation manager myself and ask? or was it the client fault for not hiring the manager in the first place? The design fees I got paid and the amount of work I had to provide for this project was very unfair. The client approached me saying this will be a budgeted project with a certain amount of number that they had to keep. So I decided to charge them low and kept design simple. However, as the design develops, she demanded more creative design which leads to more complex detailing and frequent supervision for the site. But I kept going on and did not charge extra as I do not want to burn bridges with this client.
So I don't know whether I was going at this all wrong. or the client was just being a bit of a *****. any tips, suggestions, experience sharing with any kind of clients would be greatly appreciated.
To start. Think of the interview as a two-way discussion. They need to sell you that they'll be a decent client and at least understand business dealings. Two major redflags: 1) "I've already created a rough layout, so there shouldn't be any design." and 2) cheap like they are shopping professionals based entirely on price. The combo of those two tells me they have no clue what we do and seriously undervalue our profession as a drafting house... so they'll be pita clients. I refer them to architects I don't like very much; "too busy you know... angry birds and all". Learn to identify clients in over their heads and have a fee structure/contract that reflects that learning curve.
And yes, you approached it wrong. it's like every relationship: If you play a doormat, you will be walked over. A doormat never says no, bends over backwards, etc. Bullies will find you and 'make you' do stuff for them. The natural reaction from clients is to not know where your boundaries are. Learn to say No, learn how to communicate dissatisfaction and know when it's time to tell the client you have to stop work and focus on generating income (service paying clients). And on the flip side, make sure they know when you are doing them a favor and should be charging more. I particularly like showing it on the invoice as a discount or knocked down rate.
It's ok. You can't satisfy every client, particularly if you are choosing ones who want the world and don't want to pay for it.
i think a big part of your problem is scope creep
there is often a big gap in what you perceive to be valuable and what your client perceives to be valuable. when the client wants you to spend more time that adds value to their project, one option is to charge them more. that suggests there is value to your time. another is to provide that service without a fee, which suggests there isn't much value to your time.
your design fee was low in part because you agreed to add scope to your services without adding cost right? that isn't necessarily unfair if it's what you want to do.
as far as the bar size, it sounds like you worked within the constraints you had, and i assume you were always honest with the owner about your design decisions and experience. i doubt you did anything wrong. if someone new is entering the design process and wants to contribute, then i think that's great. you can offer a revised fee based on a per-hour rate or a new lump-sum to provide the new design that meets the new design and coordination requirements. or you can tell the operations manager to learn how to do their job and work with the bar you've already designed.
Restaurant clients invariably suck. I've had two good ones, a trusting local couple that owned the underlying real estate (which even with a tight budget and schedule gave them an incentive to do good work) and two brothers who were honestly doing it on the cheap, so I did some work for free and spent a year eating unbelievable penne con pomodoro and fresh Napoleons.
Finish the project. Build rapport with the contractor. Bill for work outside the original scope including changes by owner but don't be antagonistic about it. Your job is to see the project through to successful completion. The client's job is to facilitate your work. At what point it becomes utterly impossible for you to continue is a personal call. Meditation helps. Keep your ego out of it and learn from the experience.
Restaurant clients and residential clients who don't have a day job to keep them busy are invariably the worst.
My advice on your current restaurant project is think about what you want to get out of it in the end (good photographs of particular elements for your portfolio for example) and concentrate your efforts on those elements and let the things you don't care as much about slide. Also you should charge additional services for redesigning the bar since they gave you different parameters to design for after you already designed it.
My further advice, since it sounds like you are just starting out, is to never take on a residential project for a client who doesn't work unless your fees are large enough and you are patient enough by nature to receive phone calls and emails from them every 15 minutes 24 hours a day seven days a week.
Everything you described are classic 'screw your fee' maneuvers and more importantly it sounds like the client had no clue. The blame you for bar size is what the client wanted to hear to beat you up etc...don't burn the bridge, send a nice thank you - blah blah... and if there is a next time ask for a huge retainer up front and disappear once your hours match payments to date. If they want it done yesterday make them pay for it.
Hello2015: From your troubles, I'm guessing you probably put together a very informal and poorly defined contract that neither party understood well enough to execute.
^ Lawyer up, Uncle Bob!
LoL
This one is an actual client, and not a family member. Ask an architect to explain the difference.
'LoL'
Jaffe's Second Law - If you need a lawyer, it's already to late.
you got hired as a glorified draftsman...sounds like you didn't know it.
your PM "friend" is probably throwing you under the bus on a whole bunch of shit....watch out. It is a huge liability and you could get sued if you are a licensed architect.
Finish the piece of shit and move on. In the future don't bother doing work unless you are driving the truck (first person contact and confidant with the client). Don't ever do work as a third party hire for any PM or contractor, a draftsman bitch, that is a bad deal for you as the designer, getting two people, client and PM/contractor to shit on your head.
Fuck em.
1) Clearly define scope in the initial agreement.
2) Note in the agreement that work beyond the defined scope will incur additional fees and the basis for them (hourly, percentage, negotiated), and that no additional work will be performed without the consent of owner. This protects both parties.
3) At the first request for work beyond the scope ask for written authorization to incur additional fees. If you do more w/o consent it's a gift.
4) If the scope is ambiguous you eat it. If you perform beyond scope w/o consent it's a gift.
It's all in the initial definition of scope, which requires carefull thought and presentation. It's also case by case - on some projects, or for some owners, you may not want to bang them for extras.
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