So just wondering how people out there currently working in Architecture, managed to pay off their debts, specifically those in the $100,000 range and specifically those with a Masters Degree.
What was your plan of attack on how to pay off the loan, how much did you get paid salary on your first job, how much went into paying the loan? Is it doable with the salary you were able to get? What things did you have to do to make it work, and any advice?
I think the market is getting better, especially in Canada, at least way better than before and firms seem to be hiring. What range in the realistic salary offer that a fresh grad will make (like I guess 40,000-50,000) would be the minimum one should take to be able to pay off that amount of loan? How much goes into your loan repayment every month?
It might be important to note, I've never really been interested in starting a family, so the future costs of managing the debt with family desires aren't as much of an issue for me. And home ownership ironically doesn't hold much appeal to me either- I mean my dream beforehand was actually living in a trailer by the river bed waking up to the sound of the river every morning. I'm pretty content living a simple uncomplicated life, I don't need much to make me happy, but doesn't mean I want to work for peanuts either, I'd like to work my way up to around 100,000 salary, though I know it might take 15-20 years.
Just need some real world experienced advice from those who've managed the same situation, albeit probably with the added on considerations of family and home. Thanks!
I went to my bank and ask them to consolidate everything into one large 5-year loan. Now granted I barely paid much in the first years after master's, mostly because I paid for a wedding, but once I entered licensed architect salaries, the bank was more than willing to see things my way. This is in Canada by the way.
In the end I took what was left of my own student loans and I absorbed my wife's into a mini mortgage which costs about $1300/month.
$100K is insane. But I paid off my $20K by doing this:
- A couple of years, just paid the dang thing monthly
- Eventually, bought a run down house, spent 3 years renovating and sold for a profit.
- Took some of the profit and paid off the rest of the loan
** You might want to consider doing something similar - IE: how can you use the skills you learned in school to make a chunk of money all at once? Spending 15-20 years paying off school is kinda stupid, because by then you'll be well into middle age and thinking about retirement. Then what?
I have to echo NS's thought - how in the hell does someone rack up $100,000 in debt at a Canadian university? Unless you are Canadian but went to an American school?
The situation is what it is, thinking about right or wrong isn't going to change anything, except create a sense of self pity which is what I don't want this thread to be about thanks BenC.
Practical advice geared towards what one can do about the situation as it is would be much appreciated. But thanks for the advice so far. construction management doesn't seem like a job one can get right out of arch school no?
Second job. Or side business. Or scrimp up everything and put it towards the loan so that the principal is manageable if you wanted to borrow a new loan with better rates/terms. A few years to a decade of a spartan lifestyle and then start living like most people who don't have much in savings either or plan for retirement.
For $100,000, it's probably a third to half of total monthly income depending on your specifics. Exact amount depends on the type of loan you have and interest rate. Punch it in the calculators online and look up average wages. Money will be tight but who knows, you might come out ahead from this experience.
Your situation is really no different than people buying much larger houses than they can realistically afford. It happens, people learn to deal with it.
I'm in Canada, racked up $40k-ish in debt for undergrad and M.Arch. My monthly debt payments are $600. So X 2.5, you're looking at $1500/month, or well more than half of your after-tax salary for the first 5 years of your career. It sounds almost do-able, but it's definitely not, I promise you. You'll be lucky to make low-$40's in your first job(s). Debt shouldn't eat up more than 20 or 25% of your take-home income, never mind 60%. That'll turn you into a slave to your debt, trust me. There's no realistic scenario in which taking on that much debt, at today's salaries, makes any financial sense. Good luck.
I ended up consolidating my loans and have the income based repayment system, which has you pay approx. 10% of your income per year for 25 years and then writes off the rest. It works for now, but as I start to move up and can afford to pay more I will do so, as you end up paying roughly 50% more than you borrowed over the life of the loan.
Don't do the 20+ year repayment deal. Work 2 jobs if you have to but pay as much as possible in the first few years post graduation. There is work in construction admin however, sketchup skills (or whatever they teach in m.arch these days) will not help.
If you know how hit goes together on the field and can detail assemblies then look into const-admin if the typical intern spot in an office isn't working out.
With "starchitects" not caring if slave labor is used in the Middle East to build their crap why should anyone care if the students sell themselves into financial slavery? It's the "new normal" right?
Trt23 -- sorry you're in this situation...I paid off some large loans recently, although not nearly 100K. I would encourage you to find a financial advisor that you know and trust. Be very careful about choosing this person, or it will do you more harm than good.
The fact of the matter is that your financial status is very serious. Without the right path to follow, you could very easily be in even worse shape in 5 or 10 years -- happens all the time. Get some trustworthy help ASAP.
With all the BS shoveled at college students, don't even think about any further advice from your alma mater.
Don't get depressed -- there will be a way through this mess.
Best of luck to you.
Architecture schools, NCARB, or the AIA... you be the judge.
It's 10 years, funded through provincial and federal loans. When I was in school, 10 years was the max payback term, but now I think it's been upped to 15 years. I'm glad mine are at 10, because the longer you have the loans, the more interest you pay.
To even qualify for 100k, I imagine you'd be partially going to banks for your loan, and that scares the shit out of me for some reason I can't explain.
For some reason I'm not that scared...I am and I'm not. Yes its serious, but I think cause like I said, I've never had interests in having kids, and very little interest in owning a house. Truly, I'd be very content not having either of those. So I guess this is the only thing that will be equivalent of that financially for me in this lifetime. And they cost way more than 100,000. Especially kids which is a lifetime financial commitment.... So it seems doable especially with increases in salary as the years go.
Some wag once said that the purpose of the student loan program is not to enable students to go to college, rather it is to keep colleges and universities in business, institutions that would be forced to merge or close altogether otherwise. Even with the student loan program a lot of small (read very expensive) liberal arts colleges are in trouble because potential students see what happened to their older brothers and sisters who bought the colleges' schtick and are now debt-ridden and living in their parent's basement.
100k amortized over 10 years at 4.5% is $1036/month. This will be 50% of your take-home salary, leaving you $1k for rent, transport, food, insurance, clothes, entertainment, etc. That's not manageable in any way whatsoever. It just isn't. I make quite a bit more than that, with $40k in loans, and I don't own a car, no kids, can't afford to get married, and only bought my (our) first house recently because my partner cashed in some huge savings and dipped into her future inheritance.
After thinking about your question, I've come to the conclusion that you're just trolling. Good luck, kid.
TRT23, it odd how people like yourself come on this forum and ask for advice and when given a thoughtful response just blow it off. Bowling ball has given you some excellent guidance. If you had to work and save the money beforehand there is no way you would pee it away on a grossly overpriced tuition. What some schools are doing to their students with these wildly-inflated costs is unethical and borderline criminal.
I guess I shouldn't have come here for advice, I realize that now. I'm just saying, I'm willing and able of living a lifestyle (anti-consume,conserve) like those in the examples above to pay down this debt ASAP. And plan to save the same way afterwards,even as income increases. I should ask these people, or go to a forum like theirs. But many thanks.
Do that^ then. I lived without a car for 7 years and made my own laundry soap for a year when unemployed. I worked retail and babysitting and snow shoveling jobs and sold crafts for extra cash. I never, ever buy anything that is not on sale unless I have to. I went without hot water for 4 months because I couldn't pay cash for a new water heater and I refused to use a credit card for it. Most of my furniture is from the dumpster and garage sales that I have repainted and fixed up. I turned my entire backyard into a garden and I start every meal in the garden when I can. Zucchini grows like a weed. Any kind of squash is usually prolific even for beginner gardeners. The month of August is best, grocery bills can be pretty low.
Here are some more tips - asian grocery stores have inexpensive produce. Grocery stores put lots of edible food in the dumpster but you have to know what you are doing there. Salad dressing is easy to make, so is cereal, granola, and bread, no need to buy them. Put money into savings almost every day. Even if it is just $10. Sometimes I'll think about spending money and then if I don't, I'll put the amount I was going to spend into savings.
"Consuming" a $100,000 loan is not "anti- consumerist" behavior! It is exactly the same as a crazed shopper hitting the stores before Christmas with a credit card. if a student was planning to be a heart or neurological surgeon, then just maybe. Else no. Also you need to compute the amount of money at your retirement that foregoing 401k contributions for ten years or so will cost you while you lead your dumpster-diving existence while repaying your loans. Hint: it is a lot.
I see the useful ones like tint's and yours NonSequitor (aside from the done something wrong comment) from the looking at the past ones, and "just don't" and woe is me ones, and blaming like Volunteer's (just because the loan isn't anti-consumer, doesn't mean one can't live that philosophy once school's out, as the example above illustrates), for what it is.
None of the latter looks at the just the facts of the situation and actions one can take. Which is what i was trying to keep this thread to, since I know the latter can run rampant on archinect. Again I thank you for yours NS, and if others have more pointers and/or similar experiences I'm open. Thanks!
TRT23, there are Canadian loan forgiveness programs available. I remember having $9k worth of government student loans magically disappear simply because I filled out a form.
^ ^ Some provinces cap the total amount owed regardless of the size of the loan. In Ontario anything over $7300 for two terms in one academic year or over $10,500 for 3 terms in one academic year is forgiven immediately under the Student Opportunities Grant. I believe anyone with those amounts of aid automatically qualifies for it, but I think it only applies if you attend school in the same province that you have residency (my friends who went from Ontario to BC for grad school didn't seem to get the same thing).
NS I think you may have finished school before this all rolled out, if you already have a license.
I (luckily) had a $25,000 loan. I (luckily) got a job after graduating back in 2002 that paid me $40,000. Lived like a hobo for two years, and kept paying $1000 every month to pay off the loan. Oh, and this was a private loan, so no interest...
TRT23 -- sounds like you've decided what you want to hear, and are dismissing the rest of the advice. To reiterate my previous post, you're not going to solve it like that. You don't need more "pointers". You need advice from a trustworthy "money guy" that will provide you with #1, a much needed wake up call, and the #2, a comprehensive strategy for moving forward.
We've all made mistakes -- you're in great company. But do yourself a favor, put guessing and speculation aside, and get some guidance from an expert.
You have been given excellent advice but you can't see it.
1) as a warning to others: don't get this much into debt-architecture isn't worth it. Too late for the OP-try not to be offended
2) get some advisor to help you out of this mess. Because you have already proven yourself to be bad at math.
3) have the cajones to make an investment of your time, education and money to build something that will pay off in a few years. Quit whining about not wanting things like a house or baby and get real about doing something useful with your time. Hint: "saving money" is a suckers game. Start "making money" instead.
In a few years you can either be somewhere or not, your choice.
Not at all Saint, I took your advice to consideration as well. Cause I didn't list it you took that I didn't? But rest assured I did and thank you.
Yes I've heard that view point about "making money" adding value etc...and saving is for suckers who want to postpone "living" etc..I think "Millionaire fastlane" I stumbled onto, poses this view, and I'm taking it into consideration as well. Thanks.
Saying I'm content with very little I don't consider whining, its in line with how I've grown to see and experience happiness, ie not through things or experiences which causes anxiety more than anything. Hence that's why the saving lifestyle I don't consider much of a sacrifice. And I do plan to do both, add value and save, albeit not with illusion that either will lead to...whatever. To each their own. Yes warn away please, I take no offense.
And gruen I do like your suggestion, and have considered it - making a lump of money via the house reno thing as a viable option down the road since I did do some construction before. Thanks!
@OP - it all depends on your own circumstances. Do a little research on salaries where you intend to live and draw out a rough budget. Cheap housing (get roommates or live with your parents!) is by far the easiest way to save money.
Really important is to have a sketch plan for the next 10 years of your life - based on your career goals and personal ambitions. How much you need to earn to make progress on the loans. How long will you live with roommates. How much will you set aside to save for retirement. You don't want to reach middle age and realize you have no money left to start your own office or move to follow an interest or anything else you don't yet want.
The biggest risk will be unemployment or accidents - make sure you're setting enough in savings to cover yourself if something goes wrong. Over 10 years of work you can be sure something unexpected and costly is going to hit you.
Those articles you link to - if it works for you go for it. The essence of the 2nd article was that the deeply-in-debt interior designer married a guy without debt and his full salary went towards paying off her loans. Sounds like a good deal for her!
Yes, you should take all advice with a grain of salt, even mine. But my experience is no less valid than those of the stories you linked to, which are extreme examples and not indicative of the norm.
Ultimately, debt makes you a slave. That's certainly how I've felt these past few years. I'm not really into 'stuff', but it's been difficult watching my friends and co-workers go on vacations, which I just realized I haven't actually done in over a decade. There's little relief from the everyday stress, and trust me, there's stress.
At the end of the day, when I my repayment come out of my account every month, I think to myself "I'm not sure it was worth it." Without debt, I could be working a job for 25% less pay, and 80% less stress. Plus, I'd be knowing that what I earned was going to me, not a lender I signed with many years ago.
Be smart, because once you go down that rabbit hole, there's no turning back.
TRT23, perhaps you're right and things have changed since I've left school. What I do remember is that not all of my colleagues applied for the loan forgiveness and therefore missed an opportunity,
You could always consider relocating to the less popular cities in Canada for a few years. Salaries are on average higher in areas with difficulties retaining talent.
true b bowl, they are extreme examples - I might give it a go for at least 4-5 years to pay as much as possible ASAP (while tucking away rainy day as well), and might continue same lifestyle later on (I'll probably get used to it) even as salary goes up to save and invest for retirement. Albeit I'll probably have to get a weekend job to pay for the frugal living at the beginning, and put much of the salary towards debt/savings, and yes keep an eye out for other money making opportunities as they present themselves.
We'll see - easier said than done, but I'll give it a go non the less. And I do appreciate your input. Just wanted to keep this thread on track and not derailed that's all. Yeah I won't be graduating grad school yet till end of next year so I'm planning a course of action now, even downloaded YNAB. Thanks!
IBR - as long as the student loan interest rate is low, it's not terrible (my auto loan, cc, increase in 401k, are all above it). 25yrs sucks, but then again will it allow you to save a small nest egg, or a larger down payment on a future home? the payment plan does allow you to pay it off quicker, but the base payment is low in case of a job-loss, etc.
If you're really hell-bent on getting rid of it, you can follow other's advise on another job (CM does pay well), second job (I prefer to work longer at arch job for the bonuses and ease of moving up/away to a higher paying positions), or start flipping (it's more fun to actually build stuff on occasion).
i haven't read most of this thread - but thought i'd at least respond to the original post
I had $90,000 in debt, most of which is from the m. arch degree at 6.55%
I originally signed up for income based repayment, which was great when i was got laid off and basically living on my wife's income and unemployment. Once i got a real job the required payment went sky high, so i switched to the graduated payment option which requires about $200 a month.
We pay about $2,000 a month, far more than the minimum amount, but i like the flexibility of not being required to make a $500 payment each month. The bulk of our payments go the the 6.55% loan, but we did pay off another 5.0% loan just to get it out of the way and free up $100 a month. The 6.55% should be gone in a about 18 mths.
Our other loans are in the 3% range, so my current plan is to just pay the minimum.
It might seem a little dumb to be worried about $100 here or there, but i promise it adds up very fast and sweating the small stuff means you don't or won't need to worry about the big stuff.
Buying a house in the right neighborhood and putting sweat equity into it is like having a second job, with deferred payment. I bought an old house, fixed it up, the neighborhood is hot and everyone is flipping houses around me for crazy profits. I'm going to sell this one soon and either go back to school or get another fixer-upper.
I had about $80K when I graduated about 10 years ago; my wife had about the same. We consolidated all our loans upon graduation. We were fortunate to have quite low interest rates locked in (2.8% and 4.25%). Because the interest rates were so low (only slightly higher than inflation), we decided it was best to spread the payments out over as long a period as possible. Both are now on 30-year repayment. This helped keep the payment low which we needed when we took our first jobs out of school. Ten years later the $750 or so we pay per month is somewhat incidental to our overall lifestyle. We consider it our career tax. I'm sure in another 10 or 15 years that $750/month will seem like chump change.
Anyway, that was our strategy. It worked for us, but may not for everyone.
Maybe things are different in Canada, but in the US, especially post-2008, banks are tighter with loans. In addition to a long string of requirements, they typically like total PITI to be under 28% of income, and total debt repayment not to exceed 36%.
So, debt service on a house, plus debt service on 100K student loan -- say 1000 bucks for student loan and another 1000 bucks for a house PITI. To stay under the 36%, you need to bring in a mere 5500 bucks after taxes. Maybe an 85K/year job? And that's provided you have no other debt of any kind. Oh, and that's also assuming you'd have the 20% downpayment, closing costs, two years of W2 proving the large income, etc., etc.
@Saint, well, again, the 30-year repayment keeps your monthly payment low meaning that it takes up a smaller percentage of your income. (Again, this only worked for me because I had a low interest rate; the same strategy would not work if you were looking at a 5+% interest rate.) I was making about $40K right out of school in 2005 and paying $340/month on $80K in loans. I got a $100K mortgage about two years after I graduated. As to the down payment, save, save, save, life ain't always easy.
my loans are locked in at around 2% for 30 years too. i don't think people can do that anymore. we got luck won; student loans will be something like 6% or 8% minimum now right? so spreading that out over a longer period of time doesn't make sense. also, school cost less back then.
This might be a stupid question, but if you have the 30 year repayment plan can you still make larger payments than the amount agreed to without penalties, and have it go to the principle?
Loan Repayment plans and tactics after graduation?
So just wondering how people out there currently working in Architecture, managed to pay off their debts, specifically those in the $100,000 range and specifically those with a Masters Degree.
What was your plan of attack on how to pay off the loan, how much did you get paid salary on your first job, how much went into paying the loan? Is it doable with the salary you were able to get? What things did you have to do to make it work, and any advice?
I think the market is getting better, especially in Canada, at least way better than before and firms seem to be hiring. What range in the realistic salary offer that a fresh grad will make (like I guess 40,000-50,000) would be the minimum one should take to be able to pay off that amount of loan? How much goes into your loan repayment every month?
It might be important to note, I've never really been interested in starting a family, so the future costs of managing the debt with family desires aren't as much of an issue for me. And home ownership ironically doesn't hold much appeal to me either- I mean my dream beforehand was actually living in a trailer by the river bed waking up to the sound of the river every morning. I'm pretty content living a simple uncomplicated life, I don't need much to make me happy, but doesn't mean I want to work for peanuts either, I'd like to work my way up to around 100,000 salary, though I know it might take 15-20 years.
Just need some real world experienced advice from those who've managed the same situation, albeit probably with the added on considerations of family and home. Thanks!
I went to my bank and ask them to consolidate everything into one large 5-year loan. Now granted I barely paid much in the first years after master's, mostly because I paid for a wedding, but once I entered licensed architect salaries, the bank was more than willing to see things my way. This is in Canada by the way.
In the end I took what was left of my own student loans and I absorbed my wife's into a mini mortgage which costs about $1300/month.
BTW, you've done something wrong if you've accumulated $100k worth of debt attending a Canadian M.Arch program.
$100K is insane. But I paid off my $20K by doing this:
- A couple of years, just paid the dang thing monthly
- Eventually, bought a run down house, spent 3 years renovating and sold for a profit.
- Took some of the profit and paid off the rest of the loan
** You might want to consider doing something similar - IE: how can you use the skills you learned in school to make a chunk of money all at once? Spending 15-20 years paying off school is kinda stupid, because by then you'll be well into middle age and thinking about retirement. Then what?
I have to echo NS's thought - how in the hell does someone rack up $100,000 in debt at a Canadian university? Unless you are Canadian but went to an American school?
The situation is what it is, thinking about right or wrong isn't going to change anything, except create a sense of self pity which is what I don't want this thread to be about thanks BenC.
Practical advice geared towards what one can do about the situation as it is would be much appreciated. But thanks for the advice so far. construction management doesn't seem like a job one can get right out of arch school no?
Second job. Or side business. Or scrimp up everything and put it towards the loan so that the principal is manageable if you wanted to borrow a new loan with better rates/terms. A few years to a decade of a spartan lifestyle and then start living like most people who don't have much in savings either or plan for retirement.
For $100,000, it's probably a third to half of total monthly income depending on your specifics. Exact amount depends on the type of loan you have and interest rate. Punch it in the calculators online and look up average wages. Money will be tight but who knows, you might come out ahead from this experience.
Your situation is really no different than people buying much larger houses than they can realistically afford. It happens, people learn to deal with it.
I'm in Canada, racked up $40k-ish in debt for undergrad and M.Arch. My monthly debt payments are $600. So X 2.5, you're looking at $1500/month, or well more than half of your after-tax salary for the first 5 years of your career. It sounds almost do-able, but it's definitely not, I promise you. You'll be lucky to make low-$40's in your first job(s). Debt shouldn't eat up more than 20 or 25% of your take-home income, never mind 60%. That'll turn you into a slave to your debt, trust me. There's no realistic scenario in which taking on that much debt, at today's salaries, makes any financial sense. Good luck.
If you know how hit goes together on the field and can detail assemblies then look into const-admin if the typical intern spot in an office isn't working out.
how things go together
You'd think that this would be the foundation of architectural education.
With "starchitects" not caring if slave labor is used in the Middle East to build their crap why should anyone care if the students sell themselves into financial slavery? It's the "new normal" right?
Trt23 -- sorry you're in this situation...I paid off some large loans recently, although not nearly 100K. I would encourage you to find a financial advisor that you know and trust. Be very careful about choosing this person, or it will do you more harm than good.
The fact of the matter is that your financial status is very serious. Without the right path to follow, you could very easily be in even worse shape in 5 or 10 years -- happens all the time. Get some trustworthy help ASAP.
With all the BS shoveled at college students, don't even think about any further advice from your alma mater.
Don't get depressed -- there will be a way through this mess.
Best of luck to you.
Architecture schools, NCARB, or the AIA... you be the judge.
bowling ball, How many years plan was that monthly payment for? 10 years?
It's 10 years, funded through provincial and federal loans. When I was in school, 10 years was the max payback term, but now I think it's been upped to 15 years. I'm glad mine are at 10, because the longer you have the loans, the more interest you pay.
To even qualify for 100k, I imagine you'd be partially going to banks for your loan, and that scares the shit out of me for some reason I can't explain.
For some reason I'm not that scared...I am and I'm not. Yes its serious, but I think cause like I said, I've never had interests in having kids, and very little interest in owning a house. Truly, I'd be very content not having either of those. So I guess this is the only thing that will be equivalent of that financially for me in this lifetime. And they cost way more than 100,000. Especially kids which is a lifetime financial commitment.... So it seems doable especially with increases in salary as the years go.
don't.
Some wag once said that the purpose of the student loan program is not to enable students to go to college, rather it is to keep colleges and universities in business, institutions that would be forced to merge or close altogether otherwise. Even with the student loan program a lot of small (read very expensive) liberal arts colleges are in trouble because potential students see what happened to their older brothers and sisters who bought the colleges' schtick and are now debt-ridden and living in their parent's basement.
Just. Don't.
100k amortized over 10 years at 4.5% is $1036/month. This will be 50% of your take-home salary, leaving you $1k for rent, transport, food, insurance, clothes, entertainment, etc. That's not manageable in any way whatsoever. It just isn't. I make quite a bit more than that, with $40k in loans, and I don't own a car, no kids, can't afford to get married, and only bought my (our) first house recently because my partner cashed in some huge savings and dipped into her future inheritance.
After thinking about your question, I've come to the conclusion that you're just trolling. Good luck, kid.
I'm not actually..
b bowl, perhaps you're really spending more than you think on extraneous stuff. Check out the links below.
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/how-i-live-on-7000-per-year.html
http://earlyretirementextreme.com/frequently-asked-questions
TRT23, it odd how people like yourself come on this forum and ask for advice and when given a thoughtful response just blow it off. Bowling ball has given you some excellent guidance. If you had to work and save the money beforehand there is no way you would pee it away on a grossly overpriced tuition. What some schools are doing to their students with these wildly-inflated costs is unethical and borderline criminal.
True, Voluteer, true. I completely agree. I'm not discounting it, just saying it can be done.
"Just. Don't." and "trolling" is not an option.
http://www.click2houston.com/extreme-savers-pay-off-100k-in-4-years/25174332
I guess I shouldn't have come here for advice, I realize that now. I'm just saying, I'm willing and able of living a lifestyle (anti-consume,conserve) like those in the examples above to pay down this debt ASAP. And plan to save the same way afterwards,even as income increases. I should ask these people, or go to a forum like theirs. But many thanks.
Do that^ then. I lived without a car for 7 years and made my own laundry soap for a year when unemployed. I worked retail and babysitting and snow shoveling jobs and sold crafts for extra cash. I never, ever buy anything that is not on sale unless I have to. I went without hot water for 4 months because I couldn't pay cash for a new water heater and I refused to use a credit card for it. Most of my furniture is from the dumpster and garage sales that I have repainted and fixed up. I turned my entire backyard into a garden and I start every meal in the garden when I can. Zucchini grows like a weed. Any kind of squash is usually prolific even for beginner gardeners. The month of August is best, grocery bills can be pretty low.
Here are some more tips - asian grocery stores have inexpensive produce. Grocery stores put lots of edible food in the dumpster but you have to know what you are doing there. Salad dressing is easy to make, so is cereal, granola, and bread, no need to buy them. Put money into savings almost every day. Even if it is just $10. Sometimes I'll think about spending money and then if I don't, I'll put the amount I was going to spend into savings.
"Consuming" a $100,000 loan is not "anti- consumerist" behavior! It is exactly the same as a crazed shopper hitting the stores before Christmas with a credit card. if a student was planning to be a heart or neurological surgeon, then just maybe. Else no. Also you need to compute the amount of money at your retirement that foregoing 401k contributions for ten years or so will cost you while you lead your dumpster-diving existence while repaying your loans. Hint: it is a lot.
So much useful advice here. A-shame the OP can't see it.
I see the useful ones like tint's and yours NonSequitor (aside from the done something wrong comment) from the looking at the past ones, and "just don't" and woe is me ones, and blaming like Volunteer's (just because the loan isn't anti-consumer, doesn't mean one can't live that philosophy once school's out, as the example above illustrates), for what it is.
None of the latter looks at the just the facts of the situation and actions one can take. Which is what i was trying to keep this thread to, since I know the latter can run rampant on archinect. Again I thank you for yours NS, and if others have more pointers and/or similar experiences I'm open. Thanks!
TRT23, there are Canadian loan forgiveness programs available. I remember having $9k worth of government student loans magically disappear simply because I filled out a form.
^ ^ Some provinces cap the total amount owed regardless of the size of the loan. In Ontario anything over $7300 for two terms in one academic year or over $10,500 for 3 terms in one academic year is forgiven immediately under the Student Opportunities Grant. I believe anyone with those amounts of aid automatically qualifies for it, but I think it only applies if you attend school in the same province that you have residency (my friends who went from Ontario to BC for grad school didn't seem to get the same thing).
NS I think you may have finished school before this all rolled out, if you already have a license.
I (luckily) had a $25,000 loan. I (luckily) got a job after graduating back in 2002 that paid me $40,000. Lived like a hobo for two years, and kept paying $1000 every month to pay off the loan. Oh, and this was a private loan, so no interest...
TRT23 -- sounds like you've decided what you want to hear, and are dismissing the rest of the advice. To reiterate my previous post, you're not going to solve it like that. You don't need more "pointers". You need advice from a trustworthy "money guy" that will provide you with #1, a much needed wake up call, and the #2, a comprehensive strategy for moving forward.
We've all made mistakes -- you're in great company. But do yourself a favor, put guessing and speculation aside, and get some guidance from an expert.
1) as a warning to others: don't get this much into debt-architecture isn't worth it. Too late for the OP-try not to be offended
2) get some advisor to help you out of this mess. Because you have already proven yourself to be bad at math.
3) have the cajones to make an investment of your time, education and money to build something that will pay off in a few years. Quit whining about not wanting things like a house or baby and get real about doing something useful with your time. Hint: "saving money" is a suckers game. Start "making money" instead.
In a few years you can either be somewhere or not, your choice.
Not at all Saint, I took your advice to consideration as well. Cause I didn't list it you took that I didn't? But rest assured I did and thank you.
Yes I've heard that view point about "making money" adding value etc...and saving is for suckers who want to postpone "living" etc..I think "Millionaire fastlane" I stumbled onto, poses this view, and I'm taking it into consideration as well. Thanks.
Saying I'm content with very little I don't consider whining, its in line with how I've grown to see and experience happiness, ie not through things or experiences which causes anxiety more than anything. Hence that's why the saving lifestyle I don't consider much of a sacrifice. And I do plan to do both, add value and save, albeit not with illusion that either will lead to...whatever. To each their own. Yes warn away please, I take no offense.
And gruen I do like your suggestion, and have considered it - making a lump of money via the house reno thing as a viable option down the road since I did do some construction before. Thanks!
@OP - it all depends on your own circumstances. Do a little research on salaries where you intend to live and draw out a rough budget. Cheap housing (get roommates or live with your parents!) is by far the easiest way to save money.
Really important is to have a sketch plan for the next 10 years of your life - based on your career goals and personal ambitions. How much you need to earn to make progress on the loans. How long will you live with roommates. How much will you set aside to save for retirement. You don't want to reach middle age and realize you have no money left to start your own office or move to follow an interest or anything else you don't yet want.
The biggest risk will be unemployment or accidents - make sure you're setting enough in savings to cover yourself if something goes wrong. Over 10 years of work you can be sure something unexpected and costly is going to hit you.
Those articles you link to - if it works for you go for it. The essence of the 2nd article was that the deeply-in-debt interior designer married a guy without debt and his full salary went towards paying off her loans. Sounds like a good deal for her!
Yes, you should take all advice with a grain of salt, even mine. But my experience is no less valid than those of the stories you linked to, which are extreme examples and not indicative of the norm.
Ultimately, debt makes you a slave. That's certainly how I've felt these past few years. I'm not really into 'stuff', but it's been difficult watching my friends and co-workers go on vacations, which I just realized I haven't actually done in over a decade. There's little relief from the everyday stress, and trust me, there's stress.
At the end of the day, when I my repayment come out of my account every month, I think to myself "I'm not sure it was worth it." Without debt, I could be working a job for 25% less pay, and 80% less stress. Plus, I'd be knowing that what I earned was going to me, not a lender I signed with many years ago.
Be smart, because once you go down that rabbit hole, there's no turning back.
TRT23, perhaps you're right and things have changed since I've left school. What I do remember is that not all of my colleagues applied for the loan forgiveness and therefore missed an opportunity,
You could always consider relocating to the less popular cities in Canada for a few years. Salaries are on average higher in areas with difficulties retaining talent.
true b bowl, they are extreme examples - I might give it a go for at least 4-5 years to pay as much as possible ASAP (while tucking away rainy day as well), and might continue same lifestyle later on (I'll probably get used to it) even as salary goes up to save and invest for retirement. Albeit I'll probably have to get a weekend job to pay for the frugal living at the beginning, and put much of the salary towards debt/savings, and yes keep an eye out for other money making opportunities as they present themselves.
We'll see - easier said than done, but I'll give it a go non the less. And I do appreciate your input. Just wanted to keep this thread on track and not derailed that's all. Yeah I won't be graduating grad school yet till end of next year so I'm planning a course of action now, even downloaded YNAB. Thanks!
Again, if you think you'll be able to save any money while repaying a $100K loan, I don't know what to tell you. Bonne chance.
IBR - as long as the student loan interest rate is low, it's not terrible (my auto loan, cc, increase in 401k, are all above it). 25yrs sucks, but then again will it allow you to save a small nest egg, or a larger down payment on a future home? the payment plan does allow you to pay it off quicker, but the base payment is low in case of a job-loss, etc.
If you're really hell-bent on getting rid of it, you can follow other's advise on another job (CM does pay well), second job (I prefer to work longer at arch job for the bonuses and ease of moving up/away to a higher paying positions), or start flipping (it's more fun to actually build stuff on occasion).
i haven't read most of this thread - but thought i'd at least respond to the original post
I had $90,000 in debt, most of which is from the m. arch degree at 6.55%
I originally signed up for income based repayment, which was great when i was got laid off and basically living on my wife's income and unemployment. Once i got a real job the required payment went sky high, so i switched to the graduated payment option which requires about $200 a month.
We pay about $2,000 a month, far more than the minimum amount, but i like the flexibility of not being required to make a $500 payment each month. The bulk of our payments go the the 6.55% loan, but we did pay off another 5.0% loan just to get it out of the way and free up $100 a month. The 6.55% should be gone in a about 18 mths.
Our other loans are in the 3% range, so my current plan is to just pay the minimum.
It might seem a little dumb to be worried about $100 here or there, but i promise it adds up very fast and sweating the small stuff means you don't or won't need to worry about the big stuff.
Buying a house in the right neighborhood and putting sweat equity into it is like having a second job, with deferred payment. I bought an old house, fixed it up, the neighborhood is hot and everyone is flipping houses around me for crazy profits. I'm going to sell this one soon and either go back to school or get another fixer-upper.
IBR = good idea
flipping houses = bad idea
I had about $80K when I graduated about 10 years ago; my wife had about the same. We consolidated all our loans upon graduation. We were fortunate to have quite low interest rates locked in (2.8% and 4.25%). Because the interest rates were so low (only slightly higher than inflation), we decided it was best to spread the payments out over as long a period as possible. Both are now on 30-year repayment. This helped keep the payment low which we needed when we took our first jobs out of school. Ten years later the $750 or so we pay per month is somewhat incidental to our overall lifestyle. We consider it our career tax. I'm sure in another 10 or 15 years that $750/month will seem like chump change.
Anyway, that was our strategy. It worked for us, but may not for everyone.
Awesome! I love seeing numbers and hearing about experiences of people who've gone through the same. Thanks!
^^^ how would the OP qualify for a mortage?
Maybe things are different in Canada, but in the US, especially post-2008, banks are tighter with loans. In addition to a long string of requirements, they typically like total PITI to be under 28% of income, and total debt repayment not to exceed 36%.
So, debt service on a house, plus debt service on 100K student loan -- say 1000 bucks for student loan and another 1000 bucks for a house PITI. To stay under the 36%, you need to bring in a mere 5500 bucks after taxes. Maybe an 85K/year job? And that's provided you have no other debt of any kind. Oh, and that's also assuming you'd have the 20% downpayment, closing costs, two years of W2 proving the large income, etc., etc.
that reminds me, i'd be total f'd if not for my wife and her income
@Saint, well, again, the 30-year repayment keeps your monthly payment low meaning that it takes up a smaller percentage of your income. (Again, this only worked for me because I had a low interest rate; the same strategy would not work if you were looking at a 5+% interest rate.) I was making about $40K right out of school in 2005 and paying $340/month on $80K in loans. I got a $100K mortgage about two years after I graduated. As to the down payment, save, save, save, life ain't always easy.
my loans are locked in at around 2% for 30 years too. i don't think people can do that anymore. we got luck won; student loans will be something like 6% or 8% minimum now right? so spreading that out over a longer period of time doesn't make sense. also, school cost less back then.
This might be a stupid question, but if you have the 30 year repayment plan can you still make larger payments than the amount agreed to without penalties, and have it go to the principle?
yes
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