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engineers, the general public, deathtrap buildings, children.the F'in AIA too.

gruen

I have this ongoing sneaking suspicion that many buildings - at least in my area - are being "designed" by non-architects and passing through the permitting process in violation of the law. I just received a set of floor plans for a day care center - given to me by a plumber friend who is bidding the plumbing work on the job. These plans contain multiple glaring code violations - egress, ADA, common sense, etc. They are drawn by an engineer. In my state, engineers can do 'incidental' architectural work up to a certain size. Anyone can do single family and two family homes. Everything else needs an architect. Given that my friend is bidding the job - I'm guessing they went through the permitting process and passed, with only an engineer's stamp. 

Now, this is situation where I wonder where the AIA is? It would seem obvious that the AIA should be looking over the shoulder of the local AHJ's - just simply to send more work to architects and OF COURSE to protect the public. I mean, this building is a death trap, full of CHILDREN for gods sake. But the AIA seems more interested in having awards ceremonies (that as a full AIA member, I still need to pay to attend) than actually promoting and furthering the practice of architecture. 

Has anyone gone to a local building dept and requested information on a project? Do they give it over the counter or do you need to do a FOIA request? 

GRR...I"m probably going to call the AHJ tomorrow and kindly request who the architect is of this job. I mean, it's still not code compliant, but I bet either they are trying to build it w/o a permit OR they don't have an arch OR the arch is completely incompetent. 

 
Nov 25, 14 10:44 pm

If it really could be as bad as it sounds be careful. You won't endear yourself to the municipality by making waves, somebody there is way out on a limb that you're about to cut off and you need them to practice. Not that you shouldn't, just that you should consider how to do it without standing there with a saw in your hand. Especially in your town. Maybe start with the client, they have the most to lose. If it's business as usual you need to find a politico who wants some PR, like maybe an ambitious DA.

I had political drama there once with headlines. When we get together remind me to tell you the story.

Nov 25, 14 11:19 pm  · 
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Oh, and screw the AIA. Unless you really really want one of their silly club awards.

Nov 25, 14 11:32 pm  · 
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chigurh

Understand the frustration, but it's not worth you going to the trouble to file a complaint, and go digging around in somebody else's work, permits, process, and trying to find out who stamped what.  It will just aggravate the hell out of you and accomplish nothing, except maybe somebody down the line will get a minimal fine.   The AIA is an old white mans club that sits around patting each other on the back.  This is not something that would even fall in the AIA's purview for disciplinary action, you would have to go through your state board for that.   

In my state this shit happens all the time.  The general public does not value what we do, they oftentimes go to any means possible NOT hire an architect (engineers and GCs pulling permits with shitty drawings)  Sad but true.  

Nov 26, 14 10:13 am  · 
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chigurh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RybNI0KB1bg

Nov 26, 14 10:21 am  · 
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proto

Oregon AIA just sent out a list of priorities for the state's chapters & nonmembers to rate in order of importance

one of the top topics determined in this survey was strengthening the meaning of a professional license and who is able to design buildings

it will be interesting to see what they do with this mandate from the local professionals

Nov 26, 14 11:33 am  · 
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x-jla

so an engineer can design an airplane but not a small building.  ok that makes sense.  aia aia aia aia! 

Nov 26, 14 11:49 am  · 
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proto

jla-x, do you want the engineer who designs buildings designing airplanes?

Nov 26, 14 11:52 am  · 
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Saint in the City

Gruen:  Not sure it's necessarily even a licensed architect vs. engineers/others issue....is it?  Like you said, could be a hack architect.  (Not that those actually exist.)  Sounds more like the AHJ is lacking or slacking.  Is your plumber friend concernced by the non-compliance?  If this really turned into a big deal and the public became aware, maybe he wouldn't necessarily want to be named as the plumber on the locally famous death trap project.  An end run approach might be to have the plumber make the Owner aware of the items you've noted to be unsafe and/or non-compliant.

If not, you might need to make the City aware anyway -- right now it's a public safety issue that you are aware of... 

Nov 26, 14 11:56 am  · 
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gruen

Yeah, I'm making a private inquiry at the building dept - just asking who the architect was. I don't plan on making a deal about it, but am just curious. My plumber friend had come to his own conclusion to run far and fast from the job. I figure it isn't useful to stir the pot - I need those building officials on my side eventually, and I don't have a horse in this race. But I am really curious about how this happened. 

I've watched Jonathan Ochshorn's critique of Koolhaas' Milstein Hall at Cornell with interest. Here's an actual Cornell professor/architect going out on the limb and cutting off the wrong side with his own saw. I'm personally familiar with a lot of the players - and I'm sure Ochshorn is spot on with much of his critique. 

http://www.ochshorndesign.com/cornell/writings/milstein-critique/index.html

Nov 26, 14 11:56 am  · 
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gruen

In my state engineers can do up to 35,000 cubic feet of volume that is "incidental" to their practice as engineers. This building is larger than that, and is getting an occupancy change to boot. I did not see an entire plan set, but what I did see is an engineers drawing - no stamp of any kind. So I honestly have no idea if ANYONE is stamping this project - there may be a "real" set of drawings out there and I may be chicken little in this situation. 

That's why I called the city and asked for the name of the architect. It's a simple request and if they can provide a name - then there's some (possible hack) out there who has taken responsibility. I suspect there is no architect and the AJH is asleep at the wheel. 

The plumber has asked the contractor for additional information in order to bid the job - and since it's not forthcoming the plumber will decline the job. 

Nov 26, 14 12:02 pm  · 
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Wilma Buttfit

Since you are a licensed architect and you saw the plans with the violations, you'll probably be the one held liable now. Seems to be how it works. 

Nov 26, 14 12:28 pm  · 
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Yet another reason to get an architectural license.

Nov 26, 14 1:41 pm  · 
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gruen

LOL. 

Yeah, and I'll probably get rich off this too.

Since Mr. Jaffee has a couple of laws, I think it's time for the first law of gruen:

- don't work scared - 

The building dept still hasn't called me back w/the arch's name...

Nov 26, 14 1:52 pm  · 
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chigurh

I don't even understand the the reason for inquiry...are you just jealous you didn't get the job?  c'est la vie.  Dipshits are going to do shitty work.  I bet your plumber will do the job anyways...work is work for them...what do they care if the permit set was stamped by a licensed MEP or architect?

Nov 26, 14 3:08 pm  · 
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gruen
I'm just curious. I don't want or need the work-but I think the effect of this kind of thing further devalues our profession.
Nov 26, 14 9:09 pm  · 
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Egress violations are extremely serious. Time and again buildings are proven death traps if you can't get out. A system that perpetuates this kind of violation should be corrected.

Doing the right thing is important, the trick is not to make problems for yourself. I hope you stick with it, this profession needs more integrity.

Nov 26, 14 9:28 pm  · 
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