I am a recent graduate looking to accept my first full-time architecture position. I have the problem (a good problem) of choosing between two very different jobs - and I am completely torn as to which one to choose. If you had to choose between these two jobs, which would you choose and why?
Background:
I have worked with Firm A for the past three years part and full-time. I love everyone I work with, and they know they can trust me with various architecture tasks. I knew I had a secure, well-paying position with them once I graduated. However, the workload has been very slow for the past 6 months and I'm worried because I know every other firm in the area is booming with work. I decided to interview with other companies to see what my options were, and I landed a job with an award-winning local firm. They do a variety of projects and it would be a great resume-builder. I know this choice may seem easy to some (go with the exciting choice, definitely!), but I do like going into a low-level stress work environment and leaving at the same reasonable time every day. My current job with Firm A is something that I know I like (minus being bored at times) while the offer from Firm B is an exciting possibility, but it will likely bring me more stress. Truly, I don't believe there is a "bad" choice, but these are two totally different options.
Firm A (safe):
Corporate
Great benefits, 401k eligible
3 weeks vacation / sick days, accrued immediately after start date
4.5 day work-week, 40-43 hrs/week average
Small architecture group (4 architects)
I have interned with this company for the past two years during summers and school semesters - the architecture group knows how I work and they trust me with different types of tasks
Low stress, mostly mundane work, commercial and corporate clients
Doesn't push my creativity
Work is slow, but job is secure
May win a new, larger project that would take away the boredom, but it's not a guaranteed win
Firm B (exciting):
15 architects, local firm
2 weeks vacation, not available until after 3 months of working at this firm
Exciting, well-designed and award-winning projects, residential (which I have always wanted to try) and commercial
No benefits, no 401k
5 day work-week, 45-50 hrs/week average
Probably high-stress and fast-paced
Fear of job security as I will be the newest team member
Probably will be exhausted when I get home from being mentally "on" all day - less motivation to study for AREs
It sounds like you have good relations with coworkers and managers at Firm A. Have you discussed your concern about work being slow with them? Quite possibly they will be happy to bring you up to be more involved now that you will be on full-time.
Sometimes excitement is a symptom of incompetent management which is never good for your long-term development - be sure that's not the case at firm B if you decide to go there.
In the long run you should have a plan what you want to get out of every experience you take on. It's good you see Firm B as a chance to learn residential. But if Firm A is an established stable office, they must be doing something right - is there anything you could learn there? Consider what you want to be doing (or be able to do) in 3-5 years, after you're licensed and probably ready to move on or up.
BTW - I'd be a little suspicious of Firm B not offering benefits. Ask them about this - will you be eligible after a certain amount of time there? Working a high-stress job can be a great experience. But if they can't afford to offer benefits, I suspect they aren't doing as well as you might think. It won't take long before the excitement turns to frustration if they're just another small firm struggling to make it.
go to firm B...sitting around in a boring corporate office to maintain benefits is lame. If you are bored, go out, push your limits, see what else it out there...
If it doesn't work out, you can probably go back to your slow paper pushing corporate job. Personally, I like busting shit out all day every day...it makes 9 hours in the office feel like 4...nothing to do or doing slow work is way worse...
If you stay in the same place you learn nothing new. Every job should be seen as a learning opportunity good or bad.
I was going to say Firm 'B' till you said you wanted to complete your AREs. Go with firm "A". I worked at a similar setting where I was flying low on the radar, zero stress, etc. I was doing my job and my supervisors loved me and I had a secure job. Plus they paid for my exams. I was able to focus on my exams at work and when I got home. I finished my exams in no time! Get your exams done... Then go for the challenge later on. Just remember don't get comfortable at one place ever... But take advantage of the current situation while you can. Good luck.
Thank you to everyone for your comments and advice!
My main concern is that if I want to try out residential design, I need to do it before I get licensed. Would anyone want to hire a licensed architect for residential design if he/she has only worked on commercial projects previously?
Take the job where you will learn the most - Firm B - in the long run, firms want people with progressive experience - not people who "played it safe" did the same thing over and over for 5 years - I know someone who "played it safe" to the point where no one will hire him anymore - not exactly playing it safe.
You can pass your ARE's at either firm, schedule one a month, every month and just do it...I don't understand why people drag those exams out so long...Then again if it going to take you 4 years to complete your exams, maybe firm A is perfect match.
Why such a rush to get licensed? Work at office B and build up an awesome portfolio. Don't sit around office A wasting your time as a drafter just to get licensed. Challenge yourself, office B probably has other talented staff you should network with to get future jobs, references, friendships, etc. Office A isn't going to care. You were there as a student and now you're moving on.
Where are you in IDP - it may be difficult to complete your hours in a corporate firm even if the arch. group is 4 people. I used to work for Parsons Brinckerhoff, a giant firm and had no problem getting IDP, but have heard the exact opposite from many friends
to me firm A sounds like it is run by grownups who do good but not great projects and are good business people.
Firm B is run by great designers but not great business people, less stable, no benefits, good chance you get canned if a project or two falls through. If you care more about awards and prestige than money this is the place for you
I say firm A is a no brainer for the 401k alone. Once you are licensed you can move on if you with and be in a much stronger position for any interview. The earlier you start saving the more it will compound over time.
Perhaps this says more about me than anything else, but i'd stay away from residential. It would be nice to be useful to your friends and family, but the money is in commercial/gov't work. Plus you get to work with professional contractors and clients who know what they are doing and talking about
Firm A, no contest. The sooner you start your 401k the better off you will be. Catching up on those missed years of compounding interest from the first 3-5 years of your career while you were working on "cool projects" will haunt you later in life.
Stability is what matters, put in your time and learn all you can. Do competitions on the side to keep the creativity flowing. Get licensed and then make your move. Corporate firms teach you the soft skills that "trendy" firms often fail at...managing budgets, handling clients, handling contractors, etc.
And btw....3 weeks vacation...you can actually have a life and see the world...
I'd stick with firm A until you get licensed. A low stress job where you have free time and 3 weeks vacation sound like a nice way to live while you pay off student loans and do the AREs. Benefits are huge, and as someone else noted, I'd worry about an employer that didn't offer them. Try pricing insurance and see if that helps you make your decision. You can always move on in a few years, and I think that future employers will like seeing that you can be a stable employee.
corporate drones are spineless...no risk, no reward. worried about your 401k when you are 20 years old...give me a break...all that compound interest could go to shit with another market crash..the only certainty in life is death...until then, do what you love, no reason to keep your creativity flowing on the side...live it.
your skills and health is job security - you can retire on active duty at a corporate job - and gradually become useless, then the next recession hits 3 - 4 years from now, you get laid off and your 401K becomes worthless like mine did -"we're sorry sir, we did the best we could" Fidelity acct. manager.
if you start saving at age 20 you'll have the freedom to do whatever you want later. I want to be starting my own firm and not worried about a paycheck coming in
Sit tight at least until you get your license. Seriously do that. Also you do not want a reputation as a job-hopper.You are apparently working for some decent people in your current firm; that is not always the case in any firm. I would just ask for more work from my current employer to stay busier, work on passing your exams, and pace yourself.
starting from zero, save $1,000 a month for 10 years you'll have $170,000
then save $2,500 for 10 years. You'll be 45 years old and have $800,000.
Maybe more maybe less, and inflation will eat some of it, but the important thing is if you don't have to work 60 hr a week for some ahole if you don't feel like it (so long as you live in the midwest)
If you can save 2.5k a month, you should be doing something else with it. In 45 years its going be worth much less due to inflation. Why not invest some of it in something that will give you a good return and retain its value?
I assumed no one would just put everything in a saving account. the above numbers are for a 401k, 2500 includes a company match, assuming a roughly 8% return and roundish numbers.
maybe you can't save that much at first w/ student loans, but at least start the 401k and get the match.
w/ no benefits of any kind firm b will put you far behind.
This may all be irrelevant now, what was the final decision?
I appreciate all of the input... I decided to go with Firm B. After a lot of thinking/tossing/turning, I realized I wanted to be excited about my work. I have no student loans (thanks to working tirelessly while in undergrad/grad school), and I will be making a good salary with Firm B. This is the perfect opportunity for me to try working with a smaller firm and gain skills that I would not earn while in a corporate setting. I realize that I am setting myself back a little financially by not choosing Firm A, but at the same time, I think I need that new skill set that will make me a more valuable employee. If I stayed with Firm A, I would always wonder "what if" with Firm B. So, here's to scratching "what if" off and going for what I really want (eek)!
good...way to sack up....the only way to move forward is to take risks...
Nov 14, 14 1:25 pm ·
·
Kayellsee,
You mention about wanting to work on residential. What kind of residential? Some people refer to MFRs (Condos, Multi-unit apartments, etc.) and some people refer to houses.
If you want to design houses, you don't even need a license for it in most states.
If you got licensed, you would be licensed to design any building type and you don't necessarily need to be employed by a firm that does that kind of work before doing such work but keep in mind that the pay usually sucks and clients in the ector are oftem pain in the butt types.
I am specifically referring to houses - custom, single-family homes. I do not have to be licensed in my state for residential work, but I don't see myself working on only single-family homes in my career (thus the need to get licensed, and now is the time for me to knock it out - no kids, no huge responsibilities, etc.). This is just an interest of mine that I want to pursue, and the firm I will work for does great residential AND commercial design work. I've enjoyed the large commercial projects I have previously worked on, but now I can keep that interest going in my new firm while exploring residential design. I may hate it, I may love it...but I want to figure out what I really like to do early in my career and then build my resume in whichever direction I choose.
Nov 16, 14 5:53 pm ·
·
Commendable points there. You'll want to get your licensed soon enough.
Nov 16, 14 10:55 pm ·
·
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Which job would you choose?
I am a recent graduate looking to accept my first full-time architecture position. I have the problem (a good problem) of choosing between two very different jobs - and I am completely torn as to which one to choose. If you had to choose between these two jobs, which would you choose and why?
Background:
I have worked with Firm A for the past three years part and full-time. I love everyone I work with, and they know they can trust me with various architecture tasks. I knew I had a secure, well-paying position with them once I graduated. However, the workload has been very slow for the past 6 months and I'm worried because I know every other firm in the area is booming with work. I decided to interview with other companies to see what my options were, and I landed a job with an award-winning local firm. They do a variety of projects and it would be a great resume-builder. I know this choice may seem easy to some (go with the exciting choice, definitely!), but I do like going into a low-level stress work environment and leaving at the same reasonable time every day. My current job with Firm A is something that I know I like (minus being bored at times) while the offer from Firm B is an exciting possibility, but it will likely bring me more stress. Truly, I don't believe there is a "bad" choice, but these are two totally different options.
Firm A (safe):
Firm B (exciting):
No benefits, no 401K? No medical either? Stay where you are and pass your exams.
It sounds like you have good relations with coworkers and managers at Firm A. Have you discussed your concern about work being slow with them? Quite possibly they will be happy to bring you up to be more involved now that you will be on full-time.
Sometimes excitement is a symptom of incompetent management which is never good for your long-term development - be sure that's not the case at firm B if you decide to go there.
In the long run you should have a plan what you want to get out of every experience you take on. It's good you see Firm B as a chance to learn residential. But if Firm A is an established stable office, they must be doing something right - is there anything you could learn there? Consider what you want to be doing (or be able to do) in 3-5 years, after you're licensed and probably ready to move on or up.
BTW - I'd be a little suspicious of Firm B not offering benefits. Ask them about this - will you be eligible after a certain amount of time there? Working a high-stress job can be a great experience. But if they can't afford to offer benefits, I suspect they aren't doing as well as you might think. It won't take long before the excitement turns to frustration if they're just another small firm struggling to make it.
go to firm B...sitting around in a boring corporate office to maintain benefits is lame. If you are bored, go out, push your limits, see what else it out there...
If it doesn't work out, you can probably go back to your slow paper pushing corporate job. Personally, I like busting shit out all day every day...it makes 9 hours in the office feel like 4...nothing to do or doing slow work is way worse...
If you stay in the same place you learn nothing new. Every job should be seen as a learning opportunity good or bad.
agreed! if you can bang out the exams fairly quickly you will be in a much better position when looking at other firms
Thank you to everyone for your comments and advice!
My main concern is that if I want to try out residential design, I need to do it before I get licensed. Would anyone want to hire a licensed architect for residential design if he/she has only worked on commercial projects previously?
Take the job where you will learn the most - Firm B - in the long run, firms want people with progressive experience - not people who "played it safe" did the same thing over and over for 5 years - I know someone who "played it safe" to the point where no one will hire him anymore - not exactly playing it safe.
Firm B, no question. By the time you are done with your AREs it will be 4 more years - too long to waste if you are young.
You can pass your ARE's at either firm, schedule one a month, every month and just do it...I don't understand why people drag those exams out so long...Then again if it going to take you 4 years to complete your exams, maybe firm A is perfect match.
Chi-gmp nailed it. Just follow your instincts and don't look back
Why are you on this planet? If it's to be successful in your work, Firm B. If you have other goals and the job is a means to an end, Firm A.
Also, no benefits means a shitty firm. Feel free to disagree, but if you employ people, I believe you have an obligation to ensure they're cared for.
Where are you in IDP - it may be difficult to complete your hours in a corporate firm even if the arch. group is 4 people. I used to work for Parsons Brinckerhoff, a giant firm and had no problem getting IDP, but have heard the exact opposite from many friends
to me firm A sounds like it is run by grownups who do good but not great projects and are good business people.
Firm B is run by great designers but not great business people, less stable, no benefits, good chance you get canned if a project or two falls through. If you care more about awards and prestige than money this is the place for you
I say firm A is a no brainer for the 401k alone. Once you are licensed you can move on if you with and be in a much stronger position for any interview. The earlier you start saving the more it will compound over time.
Perhaps this says more about me than anything else, but i'd stay away from residential. It would be nice to be useful to your friends and family, but the money is in commercial/gov't work. Plus you get to work with professional contractors and clients who know what they are doing and talking about
Firm A, no contest. The sooner you start your 401k the better off you will be. Catching up on those missed years of compounding interest from the first 3-5 years of your career while you were working on "cool projects" will haunt you later in life.
Stability is what matters, put in your time and learn all you can. Do competitions on the side to keep the creativity flowing. Get licensed and then make your move. Corporate firms teach you the soft skills that "trendy" firms often fail at...managing budgets, handling clients, handling contractors, etc.
And btw....3 weeks vacation...you can actually have a life and see the world...
I'd stick with firm A until you get licensed. A low stress job where you have free time and 3 weeks vacation sound like a nice way to live while you pay off student loans and do the AREs. Benefits are huge, and as someone else noted, I'd worry about an employer that didn't offer them. Try pricing insurance and see if that helps you make your decision. You can always move on in a few years, and I think that future employers will like seeing that you can be a stable employee.
Which job would you choose?
Animal trainer or repo man. The former is fun, the latter is recession-proof.
corporate drones are spineless...no risk, no reward. worried about your 401k when you are 20 years old...give me a break...all that compound interest could go to shit with another market crash..the only certainty in life is death...until then, do what you love, no reason to keep your creativity flowing on the side...live it.
Miles, corporate jobs are the least recession proof. One can get laid off for no good reason.
your skills and health is job security - you can retire on active duty at a corporate job - and gradually become useless, then the next recession hits 3 - 4 years from now, you get laid off and your 401K becomes worthless like mine did -"we're sorry sir, we did the best we could" Fidelity acct. manager.
You only make that mistake once
if you start saving at age 20 you'll have the freedom to do whatever you want later. I want to be starting my own firm and not worried about a paycheck coming in
Responsibility be damned, go be creative!!!!!
..................
I want to be starting my own firm and not worried about a paycheck coming in
Better marry into wealth or have a large inheritance to blow.
Sit tight at least until you get your license. Seriously do that. Also you do not want a reputation as a job-hopper.You are apparently working for some decent people in your current firm; that is not always the case in any firm. I would just ask for more work from my current employer to stay busier, work on passing your exams, and pace yourself.
i agree, but think about this -
starting from zero, save $1,000 a month for 10 years you'll have $170,000
then save $2,500 for 10 years. You'll be 45 years old and have $800,000.
Maybe more maybe less, and inflation will eat some of it, but the important thing is if you don't have to work 60 hr a week for some ahole if you don't feel like it (so long as you live in the midwest)
ha...800k...time to retire! if you lived in 1920.
who said anything about retire? just saying more freedom
If you can save 2.5k a month, you should be doing something else with it. In 45 years its going be worth much less due to inflation. Why not invest some of it in something that will give you a good return and retain its value?
I assumed no one would just put everything in a saving account. the above numbers are for a 401k, 2500 includes a company match, assuming a roughly 8% return and roundish numbers.
maybe you can't save that much at first w/ student loans, but at least start the 401k and get the match.
w/ no benefits of any kind firm b will put you far behind.
This may all be irrelevant now, what was the final decision?
I appreciate all of the input... I decided to go with Firm B. After a lot of thinking/tossing/turning, I realized I wanted to be excited about my work. I have no student loans (thanks to working tirelessly while in undergrad/grad school), and I will be making a good salary with Firm B. This is the perfect opportunity for me to try working with a smaller firm and gain skills that I would not earn while in a corporate setting. I realize that I am setting myself back a little financially by not choosing Firm A, but at the same time, I think I need that new skill set that will make me a more valuable employee. If I stayed with Firm A, I would always wonder "what if" with Firm B. So, here's to scratching "what if" off and going for what I really want (eek)!
Thanks for letting us know - always interesting to hear follow-ups from posters. Good luck!
Good luck! there's a lot to be said for well-rounded experience
Good luck, I would have made the same decision if I was in your position. Pay is pay but time is very precious, so make the most of it.
good...way to sack up....the only way to move forward is to take risks...
Kayellsee,
You mention about wanting to work on residential. What kind of residential? Some people refer to MFRs (Condos, Multi-unit apartments, etc.) and some people refer to houses.
If you want to design houses, you don't even need a license for it in most states.
If you got licensed, you would be licensed to design any building type and you don't necessarily need to be employed by a firm that does that kind of work before doing such work but keep in mind that the pay usually sucks and clients in the ector are oftem pain in the butt types.
Richard,
I am specifically referring to houses - custom, single-family homes. I do not have to be licensed in my state for residential work, but I don't see myself working on only single-family homes in my career (thus the need to get licensed, and now is the time for me to knock it out - no kids, no huge responsibilities, etc.). This is just an interest of mine that I want to pursue, and the firm I will work for does great residential AND commercial design work. I've enjoyed the large commercial projects I have previously worked on, but now I can keep that interest going in my new firm while exploring residential design. I may hate it, I may love it...but I want to figure out what I really like to do early in my career and then build my resume in whichever direction I choose.
Commendable points there. You'll want to get your licensed soon enough.
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