Hylas: You were represented in last night’s conversation, as one who maintained the most extravagant opinion that ever entered into the mind of man, that is, that there is no such thing as material substance in the world.
Philonous: That there is no such thing as what philosophers call material substance, I am seriously persuaded…
Hylas: What! Can anything be more fantastical, more repugnant to common sense, or a more manifest piece of skepticism, than to believe there is no such thing as matter?
Sola-Morales: Mies’s work is developed not out of images but out of materials – materials in the strongest sense of the word; that is, the matter from which objects are constructed. This matter is abstract, general, geometrically cut, smooth, and polished, but it is also material that is substantial, tangible, and solid.
Philonous: Does the reality of sensible things consist in being perceived? Or, is it something distinct from their being perceived, and that bears no relation to the mind?
Hylas: To exist is one thing, and to be perceived is another.
Philonous: I speak with regard to sensible things only: and of these I ask, whether by their real existence you mean a subsistence exterior to the mind, and distinct from their being perceived?
Hylas: I mean a real absolute thing, distinct from, and without any relation to their being perceived.
Sola-Morales: Mies’s work is developed not out of images but out of materials – materials in the strongest sense of the word; that is, the matter from which objects are constructed. This matter is abstract, general, geometrically cut, smooth, and polished, but it is also material that is substantial, tangible, and solid.
(not random enough to be blogged +/- qouting George Berkeley's First Dialogue and Sola-Morales ' Differences)
DAVID CHIPPERFIELD – STICKS AND STONES, EINE INTERVENTION
That's quite a beautiful installation. I love mies and chipperfield so it doesn't get much better than that.
my one critique would be how chipperfield handled the base on his 'columns'. They look too thin are they plywood? I'd almost rather have no base or have a little 10 mm reveal so they float or sort of hang from the ceiling grid.
hey check out Evan's bloggy post about the I-5 and columns and agadir and Islamic space. I was gonna say something about rem looking at national gallery and here it is ...
i'm not saying chipperfield has to match what mies did, just that the scale of chipperfield's column bases look a little off to me. i do like how chipperfield meets the ceiling, though.
hey by googly searching for national gallery's columns i found this image, another interesting installation take:
yeah Q rem definitely borrowed heavily from corb as well, i totally believe rem was looking at that project, too. rem cleaned up palais's's perimeter with a national gallery filter.
and here's where the development of separation warrants not one (Mies and the inverse Alsop) or two (OMA and Le Corbusier) but three (layers/) architectures, no longer the excluded middle, but the very much included:
Sometimes, the focus shifts from Gaia and Uranus, the roof and the plinth or the ground, to Chronos, that which separates and unites them.
which brings in mind this
whereas, very differently, Cappadocia might be a better example for the OMA and the Le Corbusier relief au milieu, a geotecture, earth-building, primordial carving into the mass of earth and rock evolving to carving into the mass of existing tropes of buildings.
"What is it that grows, develops, flows and spills over toward the exterior in Mies's project? Space? No. What grows are the walls: exactly the opposite of space. In Mies's project, spaces remain perfectly defined, static once they have reached their form, in contact with each other but not in contagion. Only that which is not space, or the space where we will never be able to penetrate, space that we are denied - that is to say, the solidness of the wall - shows it capacity to unfold, to organically meld itself with the foreceful lines of the exterior world."
- Jose Quelglas from "Loss of Synthesis: Mies's Pavillion"
How do you feel about this Philonous?
"Mies's use of glass manifest his anti-dialectic. Glass is the concrete negation of dwelling. Not only because architecture form drowns in it, but because glass, when so used, renders visible those who seek shelter within it." - Masimo Cacciari from "Eupalinos or Architecure"
Quondam, I was running with FRac's idea of thickening the roof slab on columns...which would not result in OMA's Agadir project and would rather result in something of those three projects you point out (or indeed the Villa Savoye).
On the other hand, the Agadir's project isn't about a space below a hovering object (sat on columns) but seems to be about a void excavated within a mass.
t a m m u z I like how you ran with FRaC's idea, it plays into not making this happen - "Only that which is not space, or the space where we will never be able to penetrate, space that we are denied - that is to say, the solidness of the wall - shows it capacity to unfold, to organically meld itself with the foreceful lines of the exterior world."....Quondam which means then presumably makes it's a Vila Savoye exercise and not a Mies exercise.
also I'm returning to Tammuz 's earlier point about two primordial issues being echoed here - forest and caves.
I'm interested in the forests and from what I can tell, when you turn Mies's matter into habitable we begin to start talking about caves. - carving out within the solid that makes the space.
(in my mind, I'm starting to see Mies van der Rohe work as the point at which matter or no matter, material or immaterial, sense or abstractions - meet and diverge)
Hyanas and Philonous might as well be talking about Mies's architecture.
not sure if Forest and Cave would be the same...still pondering.
Comment on OMA's Agadir Hotel - Went to a National AIA Convention many years ago in Cincinnati (Home of soap – Procter & Gamble) and they had a fun contest where we carved a building out of a raw block of soap – when done you realized that it wasn’t what was left on the stool that was architecture but the shavings on the floor that was the architecture.
Olaf, the "shavings" is everything that gets cut out of the solid mass to create voids & open spaces = architecture. It simply taught me that it’s those voids & open spaces - play on light - that is the architecture not necessarily the mass (sometimes).
Yes, as shown above, aren’t the spaces around the masses playing an equal role with the masses?
Sticks and Stones and all that Matter
Hylas: You were represented in last night’s conversation, as one who maintained the most extravagant opinion that ever entered into the mind of man, that is, that there is no such thing as material substance in the world.
Philonous: That there is no such thing as what philosophers call material substance, I am seriously persuaded…
Hylas: What! Can anything be more fantastical, more repugnant to common sense, or a more manifest piece of skepticism, than to believe there is no such thing as matter?
Sola-Morales: Mies’s work is developed not out of images but out of materials – materials in the strongest sense of the word; that is, the matter from which objects are constructed. This matter is abstract, general, geometrically cut, smooth, and polished, but it is also material that is substantial, tangible, and solid.
Philonous: Does the reality of sensible things consist in being perceived? Or, is it something distinct from their being perceived, and that bears no relation to the mind?
Hylas: To exist is one thing, and to be perceived is another.
Philonous: I speak with regard to sensible things only: and of these I ask, whether by their real existence you mean a subsistence exterior to the mind, and distinct from their being perceived?
Hylas: I mean a real absolute thing, distinct from, and without any relation to their being perceived.
Sola-Morales: Mies’s work is developed not out of images but out of materials – materials in the strongest sense of the word; that is, the matter from which objects are constructed. This matter is abstract, general, geometrically cut, smooth, and polished, but it is also material that is substantial, tangible, and solid.
(not random enough to be blogged +/- qouting George Berkeley's First Dialogue and Sola-Morales ' Differences)
That's quite a beautiful installation. I love mies and chipperfield so it doesn't get much better than that.
my one critique would be how chipperfield handled the base on his 'columns'. They look too thin are they plywood? I'd almost rather have no base or have a little 10 mm reveal so they float or sort of hang from the ceiling grid.
hey check out Evan's bloggy post about the I-5 and columns and agadir and Islamic space. I was gonna say something about rem looking at national gallery and here it is ...
also check out kunsthal ... If I remember correctly rem did this sort of tree trunk hypostyle hall type space in one of the rooms.
Yes just checked rem did some tree trunks though not as dense as chipperfield's. kunsthal and agadir: both national gallery offspring.
FRaC I actually think the base makes sense, that's why I included the iso drawing at top of the actual steel columns for the Neue Kunstgalerie.
you both just reminded me of another project the Akademie Mont-Cenis, Herne, DE
ODN but mies buries the base plate on his columns
i'm not saying chipperfield has to match what mies did, just that the scale of chipperfield's column bases look a little off to me. i do like how chipperfield meets the ceiling, though.
hey by googly searching for national gallery's columns i found this image, another interesting installation take:
tasty linky -> http://www.db-artmag.com/archiv/2005/e/1/2/311.html
yeah Q rem definitely borrowed heavily from corb as well, i totally believe rem was looking at that project, too. rem cleaned up palais's's perimeter with a national gallery filter.
Balderdash!
national gallery has a socle ... just thicken the roof slab and program it and you get agidar!
nat'l gallery 4 eva!!!!
...not really.
Remove curtain wall beneath, paint in Dalmatian pixels and place on skewed columns, it starts to look like this
and here's where the development of separation warrants not one (Mies and the inverse Alsop) or two (OMA and Le Corbusier) but three (layers/) architectures, no longer the excluded middle, but the very much included:
Architects: Architects of Invention
Location: Lazika, Georgia
Sometimes, the focus shifts from Gaia and Uranus, the roof and the plinth or the ground, to Chronos, that which separates and unites them.
which brings in mind this
whereas, very differently, Cappadocia might be a better example for the OMA and the Le Corbusier relief au milieu, a geotecture, earth-building, primordial carving into the mass of earth and rock evolving to carving into the mass of existing tropes of buildings.
it seems to me perhaps there are two primordial echoes here, that of the forest (columns) and that of the cave (excavation).
speaking of trees Stuttgart Airport by von Gerkan, Marg und Partner, Schlaich Bergermann engineers
speaking of primordial and growth -
"What is it that grows, develops, flows and spills over toward the exterior in Mies's project? Space? No. What grows are the walls: exactly the opposite of space. In Mies's project, spaces remain perfectly defined, static once they have reached their form, in contact with each other but not in contagion. Only that which is not space, or the space where we will never be able to penetrate, space that we are denied - that is to say, the solidness of the wall - shows it capacity to unfold, to organically meld itself with the foreceful lines of the exterior world."
- Jose Quelglas from "Loss of Synthesis: Mies's Pavillion"
How do you feel about this Philonous?
"Mies's use of glass manifest his anti-dialectic. Glass is the concrete negation of dwelling. Not only because architecture form drowns in it, but because glass, when so used, renders visible those who seek shelter within it." - Masimo Cacciari from "Eupalinos or Architecure"
But what does dwelling have to do with matter?
Quondam, missed something - what is this building?
Another cave...?
OMA's Axel Springer Campus project in Berlin
Quondam, I was running with FRac's idea of thickening the roof slab on columns...which would not result in OMA's Agadir project and would rather result in something of those three projects you point out (or indeed the Villa Savoye).
On the other hand, the Agadir's project isn't about a space below a hovering object (sat on columns) but seems to be about a void excavated within a mass.
t a m m u z I like how you ran with FRaC's idea, it plays into not making this happen - "Only that which is not space, or the space where we will never be able to penetrate, space that we are denied - that is to say, the solidness of the wall - shows it capacity to unfold, to organically meld itself with the foreceful lines of the exterior world."....Quondam which means then presumably makes it's a Vila Savoye exercise and not a Mies exercise.
also I'm returning to Tammuz 's earlier point about two primordial issues being echoed here - forest and caves.
I'm interested in the forests and from what I can tell, when you turn Mies's matter into habitable we begin to start talking about caves. - carving out within the solid that makes the space.
(in my mind, I'm starting to see Mies van der Rohe work as the point at which matter or no matter, material or immaterial, sense or abstractions - meet and diverge)
Hyanas and Philonous might as well be talking about Mies's architecture.
not sure if Forest and Cave would be the same...still pondering.
Comment on OMA's Agadir Hotel - Went to a National AIA Convention many years ago in Cincinnati (Home of soap – Procter & Gamble) and they had a fun contest where we carved a building out of a raw block of soap – when done you realized that it wasn’t what was left on the stool that was architecture but the shavings on the floor that was the architecture.
well now we have three themes - Carrera
1. Forrests
2. Caves
3. Shavings
What are shavings in architecture?
are these shavings? this is definitely not Forest or Caves.
Olaf, the "shavings" is everything that gets cut out of the solid mass to create voids & open spaces = architecture. It simply taught me that it’s those voids & open spaces - play on light - that is the architecture not necessarily the mass (sometimes).
Yes, as shown above, aren’t the spaces around the masses playing an equal role with the masses?
shavings are like static electricity? shavings are the minute grains in textures?
like the light on the edges of the ornament?
would you say the "shavings" are accentuated here?
That's all shavings!!
incidentally, I just realized how fortuitous.
sticks...trees... forests
stones....caves
What's wrong with Wil Alsop's OCAD building in toronto?
haha Orhan....nice one. sticks out of stones...but where did all the shavings go?
Sticks.
an architectural game of paper (shavings), sticks and stones?
did you say shavings or savings :)
They say Mies used to go through rolls of tracing paper to find the right detail...this would be a form of shaving in the design process....
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