"Last Week dy'd at the Prison of the Fleet Mr. Robert Castell, an ingenious and able Architect, well known by a Work which he had publish'd, called the Villa's of the Ancients. Some Misfortunes befalling him his Creditors some Months ago threw him into Gaol, and have lately so harass'd him with Executions and Charges of Law, that with Grief and Want he dy'd in a very miserable Condition. He had likewise just finished a Translation of Vitrivius; but the Cruelty of his Creditors was such, that they would not suffer him to go on with that Noble Work. It is to be feared that there are many others in that and other Prisons of the Kingdom, who will perish in the same Manner, if the Laws still permit merciless Creditors to indulge their Inhumanity towards Debtors who are willing to deliver up all they have to satisfy them."
The Daily Post - December 18, 1728 from "The Prison Death of Robert Castell", Georgia Historical Quarterly, Spring 1989, Rodney M. Baine, p. 71
According to Baine the same obituary appeared in The London Evening Post "surely by Oglethorpe"...The essay by Baine is about Architect Robert Castell's and Vitruvius' influence on James Oglethorpe the colonial father and planner of Savannah, GA . Oglethorpe was seeking relief for imprisoned debtors to transport to America -"for Establishing a charitable Colony for the better Maintainence of the poor of the city of London, and elsewhere within the Kingdoms."......[Howell, Complete Collection, 17:309, 562-563, Oglethorpe, A Report, p.8]
Miles , it begs the question: now what can 'they/we' do with all the prisoners, debtors, and the poor?
small correction - ."......[Howell, Complete Collection, 17:309, 562-563, Oglethorpe, A Report, p.8] should read [Minute Book of Bray Associates, 1729-1732...]
Quondam, took the Link, nice Sunday morning read, thanks for posting.
I guess the list is very long, architects falling into hardship, names like Gropius’ TAC, Burgee and Portman are ones that fell during my stride. I suppose it’s the ebb and flow of things that gets to all of us with not being taught how to run a business as a close second.
Quondam, great link, I will be sure to review thoroughly.
Carrera, what is interesting to note, while the architect often falls into hardship, the very approach to their profession and life that causes the architect to fall into hardship renders those who employ the architects services wealthier; enough to have a municipality try and claim for additional taxes caused by good design decisions made by the architect.
It appears my research for the next Olaf blog post is becoming quite the arduous task, not to mention the post thereafter I've been researching for some time already (Hedayat's Blind Owl)...good thing I commute 2.5 hours a day...Quondam, if you don't mind, could I send you the rough draft for Savannah Olaf blog post for a quick accuracy review prior to publishing? (within the next 3 weeks or so)
Olaf, thanks for the interesting read. Enjoy reading well crafted works by attorney’s & judges, with my love of writing it reminded me of that fork-in-the-road I could have taken.
Reading it has given me a tickle of a future thread, which being what to do with all the value we add to our works from beginning to end. This case was a fairly common tax thing that got tangled in prestige….owners wanting it for net-worth but not when taxes are due. For people in the arts that die poor, it is sad, but there are many personal factors that get entangled too….as with the life of Wright. While Mies wasn’t wealthy he was well-to-do when he died. He didn’t manage his money well either and also couldn’t-keep-it-in-his-pants. So no tears there and for almost all architects today, the money is there, one just needs to know how to grab-it….which will be a continuing contribution of mine on this Forum.
speaking of tickled, this bit tickled me from the Seagram link above
“These buildings serve their owners in a fourfold way: 1. They house their activities. 2. They provide income from the rental of the space not used by the owner. 3. They advertise the owner’s business. 4. They contribute to the owner’s prestige.1
Just how a building whose construction is designed to serve these particular purposes is to be appraised, presents certain difficulties. The enhancement of the owner’s ego is not a factor that can have a market value. In this city at present buildings in this special category, though few, are not unique. The time may come when they are so numerous that they become subject to sale, rent and the other transactions of commerce, so that by trading a market price which reflects the extra commercial aspect can be ascertained...."
Welcome to New York City of today....
Carrera I will be looking out for your thread and love the additional info on the stars of the past. One of my blog stories was based on a very much older immigrant architect who worked for Mies and what he did his first day down at the...
Aug 24, 14 4:20 pm ·
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Architect and Debt - circa 1728 (England)
"Last Week dy'd at the Prison of the Fleet Mr. Robert Castell, an ingenious and able Architect, well known by a Work which he had publish'd, called the Villa's of the Ancients. Some Misfortunes befalling him his Creditors some Months ago threw him into Gaol, and have lately so harass'd him with Executions and Charges of Law, that with Grief and Want he dy'd in a very miserable Condition. He had likewise just finished a Translation of Vitrivius; but the Cruelty of his Creditors was such, that they would not suffer him to go on with that Noble Work. It is to be feared that there are many others in that and other Prisons of the Kingdom, who will perish in the same Manner, if the Laws still permit merciless Creditors to indulge their Inhumanity towards Debtors who are willing to deliver up all they have to satisfy them."
The Daily Post - December 18, 1728 from "The Prison Death of Robert Castell", Georgia Historical Quarterly, Spring 1989, Rodney M. Baine, p. 71
According to Baine the same obituary appeared in The London Evening Post "surely by Oglethorpe"...The essay by Baine is about Architect Robert Castell's and Vitruvius' influence on James Oglethorpe the colonial father and planner of Savannah, GA . Oglethorpe was seeking relief for imprisoned debtors to transport to America -"for Establishing a charitable Colony for the better Maintainence of the poor of the city of London, and elsewhere within the Kingdoms."......[Howell, Complete Collection, 17:309, 562-563, Oglethorpe, A Report, p.8]
50 years later England established a prison colony in Australia.
Miles , it begs the question: now what can 'they/we' do with all the prisoners, debtors, and the poor?
small correction - ."......[Howell, Complete Collection, 17:309, 562-563, Oglethorpe, A Report, p.8] should read [Minute Book of Bray Associates, 1729-1732...]
Quondam, took the Link, nice Sunday morning read, thanks for posting.
I guess the list is very long, architects falling into hardship, names like Gropius’ TAC, Burgee and Portman are ones that fell during my stride. I suppose it’s the ebb and flow of things that gets to all of us with not being taught how to run a business as a close second.
Quondam, great link, I will be sure to review thoroughly.
Carrera, what is interesting to note, while the architect often falls into hardship, the very approach to their profession and life that causes the architect to fall into hardship renders those who employ the architects services wealthier; enough to have a municipality try and claim for additional taxes caused by good design decisions made by the architect.
In the Matter of Joseph E. Seagram & Sons, Inc., Appellant, v. Tax Commission of the City of New York et al., Respondents, Appellate Division of the Supreme Court of the State of New York, First Department. March 5, 1963.
It appears my research for the next Olaf blog post is becoming quite the arduous task, not to mention the post thereafter I've been researching for some time already (Hedayat's Blind Owl)...good thing I commute 2.5 hours a day...Quondam, if you don't mind, could I send you the rough draft for Savannah Olaf blog post for a quick accuracy review prior to publishing? (within the next 3 weeks or so)
Olaf, thanks for the interesting read. Enjoy reading well crafted works by attorney’s & judges, with my love of writing it reminded me of that fork-in-the-road I could have taken.
Reading it has given me a tickle of a future thread, which being what to do with all the value we add to our works from beginning to end. This case was a fairly common tax thing that got tangled in prestige….owners wanting it for net-worth but not when taxes are due. For people in the arts that die poor, it is sad, but there are many personal factors that get entangled too….as with the life of Wright. While Mies wasn’t wealthy he was well-to-do when he died. He didn’t manage his money well either and also couldn’t-keep-it-in-his-pants. So no tears there and for almost all architects today, the money is there, one just needs to know how to grab-it….which will be a continuing contribution of mine on this Forum.
speaking of tickled, this bit tickled me from the Seagram link above
“These buildings serve their owners in a fourfold way: 1. They house their activities. 2. They provide income from the rental of the space not used by the owner. 3. They advertise the owner’s business. 4. They contribute to the owner’s prestige.1
Just how a building whose construction is designed to serve these particular purposes is to be appraised, presents certain difficulties. The enhancement of the owner’s ego is not a factor that can have a market value. In this city at present buildings in this special category, though few, are not unique. The time may come when they are so numerous that they become subject to sale, rent and the other transactions of commerce, so that by trading a market price which reflects the extra commercial aspect can be ascertained...."
Welcome to New York City of today....
Carrera I will be looking out for your thread and love the additional info on the stars of the past. One of my blog stories was based on a very much older immigrant architect who worked for Mies and what he did his first day down at the...
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