Miko Peled (FB entry) : "Anyone who talks about the occupation of Palestine as something that began in 1967 is wasting air and time. All of Israel is occupied Palestine it started in 1948, all Israelis are settlers and colonizers and all Israeli cities and towns are illegal settlements. Now let's talk about getting rid of the apartheid regime and instituting a democracy that respects human rights and civil rights and the right to live of everyone that lives between the river and the sea. Time to demand unconditional release of all Palestinian prisoners, unconditional lifting of siege on Gaza and free and fair one person one vote elections. Anything short if that is a waste if time and breath. Almost 7 decades of Zionist racist apartheid is more than enough, how many more civilians does Israel need to murder before people speak up..."
BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Israeli forces demolished three floors of a residential Palestinian building in Abu Dis overnight Sunday on the pretext that the owners lacked building permission, locals said.
Witnesses told Ma'an that five Israeli bulldozers accompanied by Israeli forces surrounded a five-story building in Abu Dis after midnight and began demolishing three floors at around 1:40 a.m.
Israeli forces closed all roads leading to the building before the demolition.
Owner Muatasim Adilah, a lecturer at Al-Quds University, said that Israeli forces ordered him and his family to leave the building without being allowed to remove any belongings.
(...)
Israel destroyed more than 500 Palestinian properties in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 2013, displacing over 850 people, according to UN figures.
“If you mean whose side should we be on: Israel or the Arabs? I would certainly say Israel because it’s the advanced, technological, civilized country amidst a group of almost totally primitive savages“–Ayn Rand (1979, The Donahue Show)
Apparently civilized people think they have the right to commit genocide by any other name, dispossession, steal other people's lands, treat other people like subhumans....and cite such despicable racist quotes. You're not doing yourself a favour...
Members of right-wing organization Lehava protesting the wedding of a Jewish-born woman and a Muslim man in Rishon Letzion, August 17, 2014. Photo by Ofer Vaknin
By Or Kashti | Aug. 27, 2014 | 5:52 AM | 1
“For me, personally, Arabs are something I can’t look at and can’t stand,” a 10th-grade girl from a high school in the central part of the country says in abominable Hebrew. “I am tremendously racist. I come from a racist home. If I get the chance in the army to shoot one of them, I won’t think twice. I’m ready to kill someone with my hands, and it’s an Arab. In my education I learned that ... their education is to be terrorists, and there is no belief in them. I live in an area of Arabs, and every day I see these Ishmaelites, who pass by the [bus] station and whistle. I wish them death.”
@tammuz - how delightfully one-sided of you. The Palestinians and their obvious record of being a peace loving people, without a hateful or racist bone in their body...as a people. Such is the plight of such an innocent people, forced into such horrific behavior because of the Jewish people...nice argument, and one that you seem committed to making, over and over again...that is apparently your cause...a cause that can never cost too much..as you affirmed time and time again....which is your undoing.
Almost 1,000 posts into your absurd thread and you have yet to realize not the futility in your position but the untenable nature of it. At one point you will be forced to realize that your barbaric screams fall upon deaf ears and your inclination, the Palestinian inclination, is to cut that ear off. But alas, these ears are not deaf, they hear your cries, your pleas to hold on to an archaic method of problem solving, an archaic method of "being a people". But your cries are not cries to be left alone - they are by their very nature insistent of infecting everyone else...your own call for genocide for those who disagree with you mutes the indignant and public relation devised whispers of a Palestinian genocide...your hyperbole merely reveals your arrogance.
The irony is that the Palestinians do not want peace, never have never will...it is not the way of the uncivilized...peace is not primal condition...fear and seclusion are...this is what Hamas sells and it is in surplus across the Palestine markets...but the shelf life is not long for this world, and your attempts to re-package, re-brand, and regurgitate the Palestinian hate message are blatant.
I believe your strategy of bashing Israel, or claiming that israel is the same as or worse than Palestine, as a means to gain sympathy just does not conclude from the evidence...civilized people ,like those at Archinect, are able to discern the truths, motives, and actions of the Palestinians, Hamas, and other primitive cultures...and what history teaches us is that only those which can adapt will survive...you may call that genocide...but i call it suicide.
New video footage appears to show Palestinian children in summer camps run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) being taught that “Jews are the wolf,” and that they will one day conquer Israeli cities by force ...
Created in 1949 to aid Palestinian refugees, UNRWA has been slammed by some in Israel and the US for backing terror organizations and causing more harm than good.
...
“I will defeat the Jews,” a camper named Tayma tells the documentary crew. “They are a gang of infidels and Christians. They don’t like Allah and do not worship Allah. And they hate us.”
As far as I am concerned, the whole region is fucked, and Jews and Arabs alike get what they deserve as long as they perpetuate this ancient conflict.
Tammuz, this really belongs as a blog since you obviously are not interested in engaging with those holding moderate positions, only in baiting and engaging those at the opposite extreme from you.
No one cares about the Palestinians. I wish I could, but I've got my own problems and my own country that is going to hell.
Subgenus - quoting Ayn Rand? How very novel of you. Funny what FLW said about the Fountainhead and the rest of her work...
archanonymous, what ancient conflict? This is about colonizers and colonized; this is not about religion - even if the injustice is done in its name- its about theft of land, kicking a native population out in order to replace it with a Eurocentric other. In a world that doesn't succumb to ignorance and obfuscation, the very polarization of Arab vs Jew or Jew vs Arab is idiotic. There have always been Jewish Arabs, as there were Christian Arabs as there were Moslem Arabs. The nationalization and racializing of Judaism - a religion that knew conversion in its history as much as Christianity and islam- are relatively novel ideas that go back to the 19th century romantic nationalism, the same that generated Nazism and the idea of a superior White race...instead of White, here replaced with Jewish within the context of a colonial outpost.
This is neither an ancient conflict -it dates back from the late 19th century, effective early 20th- nor do the Palestinians deserve this, as you put it. They were not the people who stole other's lands, who generated massacre after massacre in order to get Palestine rid of Palestinians in order to reestablish the land as Israel. This is not a an ancient conflict but a contemporary case of racial colonialism, mass persecution and incremental genocide. Keeping in mind that the USA's support for Israel outweighs the support its own citizens garner from it, Americans should be extremely -in moral and practical terms- concerned with exactly this issue. In fact, anyone who has any normalizing disposition towards Israel is de facto morally compromised...as she or he would have been had they had such a disposition towards Apartheid South Africa or Rhodesian colony.
You might not care for Palestinians and you might not understand what the nature of the "conflict" is....but don't blame me for your ignorance and apathy...because you would be topping your messy cake with the cherry of stupidity.
Should you not care, you would not post in, or read, this thread.
Also, while you might be apathetic -whether because you are stubbornly ignorant or because you have psychopathic tendencies- the fact is that the BDS movement calling for the boycott of Israel is increasingly effective globally and people around the world are waking up to that lie that Israel is a "normal country" and realizing its nature, thanks to Israel's own heinous crimes and episodic massacres of Palestinians justified on -except for the blindly pro-Zionist ideologue or brainwashed or bought-over zio-zombie- transparent lies. First by seeing the pattern of killing and then by rationally reading the history of Israel's coming into being, they realize that Israel started as a colony and continues to be a colony, pre-1967 or post-1967 so-called "borders" (Israel does not have official borders in its true nature as an expansive colony). Israel pre- or pos-1967 is an abomination, a historical crime against humanity. To accept it is to accept that its fine to live with a murderer and land usurper.
To accept and normalize with Israel is to not be able to have ethical integrity again or else, to be hypocritical and deceitful.
Many Arabs these days will try to convince the world that Israelis are the violent ones, that Jews started the conflict. They say that before 1948, all was peaceful. The truth is, Arabs have been instilling hatred toward Jews in their people for generations upon generations. The Arab attacks against Jews in recent times began as early as 1920, though they really have been going on for centuries when Jews had dhimmi status while living in Muslim controlled lands, and there were many massacres such as the one in Hebron in 1929. Over 100 Jews were killed in that year alone.
There were anti-Jewish riots in 1920 and 1921. The Hebron incident in 1929 was a massacre of the Jewish community there. There was an Arab Revolt from 1936 to 1939. These are just a few of the major attacks, but there were murders which occurred practically every single year between 1920 and 1948, and they continue to this day.
This hatred and wish to annihilate Jews is the brainwashing process that begins from the time Muslim Arabs (and especially Palestinians) are born. Instead of being fed love, with their mothers’ milk they are fed hatred and violence. Children repeat what they hear, and they glorify “martyrdom” (which is nothing more than terrorism) in preschool and kindergarten plays. Even in children’s cartoons, these are the “ideals” they are being taught.
A new Pew Research Center survey showed that people living under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas dislike the U.S. more than any other group, with 76% of respondents, the most on the list, qualifying America as an “enemy.”
More lies and obfuscations. Palestinian jews (yes Palestinian arab jews!), Christians and Moslems lived in Palestine, and the same in Lebanon, Egypt, Yemen with little to no trouble until the advent of colonialism - be it European or Ottoman or back to European and thereafter Zionism. What many fail to realize is that Arabs have been through a long history of colonialism .
My grandmother's family grew up with Palestinian jewish and Christian neighbours and it was actually impolite to even explicitly point people out by religion. Traditions were shared and respected.
As for the Hebron massacre...yet again, this can only be explained by looking at the context of the advent of Zionism and its colonization of Palestine. As I had stated many times, not only are and were the Palestinian Christians and moslems victims of Zionism but so were, in another way, Palestinian Jews AND Jews around the world...who have been made a hostage of a contemporary formula "good Jew=Zionist" that has no basis neither in their religion nor in their history. Zionism is nothing but colonialism donning on the guise of Judaism; this is not about Jews vs Arabs or Palestinians or Jews. This is about Zionist colonization, murderous and plunderous, and its aftereffects.
...like most people, fails to recognize that the massacre in Hebron in 1929 was part of regionwide riots between Arabs and Jews that began several days earlier in Jerusalem.
Your piece would have us assume that Palestine Arabs killed Hebron Jews for . . . why? A fit of racist ethnic cleansing? Is that what the local settlers there told you? Why do you offer no explanation or context for an infamous massacre? An incredible omission, I’d say.
Significantly, the bloody riots in Jerusalem started after Zionists there paraded nationalist banners at the Wailing Wall in a brazen provocation against Ottoman-era bans of such displays that had been in force for many years. These and other Zionist actions at the Wailing Wall (at the time owned and maintained by Arabs) were specifically designed to provoke a violent reaction among local Palestinians. Well, it worked.
Once the killing in Jerusalem started, that news along with false rumors of Jewish attacks on the Al-Aqsa Mosque spread quickly to Hebron, where the local Palestinians, in an unjustified fit of faux revenge, killed the non-Zionist religious Jews, whose small community had lived in Hebron in peace for hundreds of years.
In fact, the August 1929 riots in Jerusalem, Hebron and elsewhere resulted in “207 dead and 379 wounded among the population of Palestine, of which the dead included eighty-seven Arabs (Christian and Moslem) and 120 Jews, the wounded 181 Arabs and 198 Jews.” according to official British casualty lists, as recounted by American journalist James Vincent Sheean reporting from Palestine during these troubles.
like most people, fails to recognize that the massacre in Hebron in 1929 was part of regionwide riots between Arabs and Jews that began several days earlier in Jerusalem.
Your piece would have us assume that Palestine Arabs killed Hebron Jews for . . . why? A fit of racist ethnic cleansing? Is that what the local settlers there told you? Why do you offer no explanation or context for an infamous massacre? An incredible omission, I’d say.
Significantly, the bloody riots in Jerusalem started after Zionists there paraded nationalist banners at the Wailing Wall in a brazen provocation against Ottoman-era bans of such displays that had been in force for many years. These and other Zionist actions at the Wailing Wall (at the time owned and maintained by Arabs) were specifically designed to provoke a violent reaction among local Palestinians. Well, it worked.
Once the killing in Jerusalem started, that news along with false rumors of Jewish attacks on the Al-Aqsa Mosque spread quickly to Hebron, where the local Palestinians, in an unjustified fit of faux revenge, killed the non-Zionist religious Jews, whose small community had lived in Hebron in peace for hundreds of years.
In fact, the August 1929 riots in Jerusalem, Hebron and elsewhere resulted in “207 dead and 379 wounded among the population of Palestine, of which the dead included eighty-seven Arabs (Christian and Moslem) and 120 Jews, the wounded 181 Arabs and 198 Jews.” according to official British casualty lists, as recounted by American journalist James Vincent Sheean reporting from Palestine during these troubles.
Also, with respect to subgenuis' citation of disliking the USA, without a doubt, and without any disrespect to US citizens, when the US adminstrations pummels billions of dollars into Israel, supports it unconditionally in its support of the murder of Palestinians...when the US has an equally honorable history of destroying other countries and peoples in the region and around the world on the basis of lies , don't be so upset that the US is despised. Especially when it talks of democracy....then goes on to destroy a country, then pretends it did so out of naivety.
Also, it is very sleazy of subgenuis to be playing this card. What does it have to do with making Israel look better or Palestinians look worse? She or he is trying to tell you this: because they, Palestinians, don't like the US (which is very justifiable given the US record), then you, US citizens should support Israel not Palestinians (ie rather than rectifying your mistakes, you should move to a more extreme level of making mistakes).
This is transparently blatant and dumb propaganda that is not even intrinsically linked to either her or his faulty reasoning or her or his lies. The likes of subgenuis are here to defend Israel at all costs, sacrificing logic, ethics, and plain common sense.
Again subgenuis tries to turn this into a perverted twisted lie where the Jews are at the receiving end.
We`re talking about Zionists not Jews...people whose ideology is to steal other's lands and homes, banish the Palestinians and kill and oppress those remaining
. Ìf they, Zionists, coming from the four corners of the world to kick native residents out , chose to steal and kill in the belief that some God gave them an ancient promise that the land is theirs -and this shows that Israel, Zionists, is the first extrmist fundamnetalist terrorist organization in the contemporary history of the Middle East- this, firstly, does not give them the right to speak for all Jews...just as ISIS does not have the right to speak for all Muslims... and this does not place them in the role of victims. Stop crying for the murderer.
The colonized has every right to fight back against the colonizer as the victim of rape has every right to fight against a rapist. Whoever stands by the colonizer, equips it and cheers it on is of course complicit. This should clear..and this should stop. Stoping military support for this colonial entity should be one way; another are economic and cultural boycotts. Governments are unfortunately the last to budge; the civil society is being the spearhead and architects and related organisations (Archinect, for instance) are of course not exempt.
Israel cannot survive in the long term and will one day belong to the dark chapters of dwindling eurocentric colonialism and a pathological aftereffect of european racism firstly against european jews then sublimized by a part of the latter against arabs.
what about the people living in israel who are not zionist, but want to live in their homes and on their land which has, in some cases, been in their families for generations and even part of the israeli government for generations? should the palestinians have a right to steal their land, banish them, and kill them? should you have the right to their land since you might have a relative a couple generations back that was a palestinian? to be clear, you're not against stealing land or killing people, you just want to pick who gets killed right?
don't answer those questions. you're arguments can't face much scrutiny because you ignore all of history that doesn't support your desire to hate people, and then set up a make-believe 'zionist' strawman to hang all your racism on. not saying that the israelis haven't given the palestinians good reason to hate them, but someone who wanted to pretend to be educated would probably at least make an effort to pretend to show they've made an attempt to understand other perspectives.
curtkram, your post is full of unreasonable associations and pettiness; whether you want me or don'want want me to answer your silly questions is besides the point when measured against the display of stupidity, dishonesty and ignorance of your post, especially given that I have previously stated to you, several times, my stance relative to people living in what is now know as Israel and what one day will no longer be recognized as Israel.
Whether there are, in your view, non-Zionists living in Israel is inconsequential given that the state defines itself as Zionist, when Jews who have nothing to do with Palestine are invited from across the world to perform aliyah and settle in Palestinian homes or establish theirs on confiscated Palestinian land that have had their residents kicked out to make way for a Jewish state. Similarly, there were good germans/austrians/polish/etc and good white south africans living within the Nazi regime and apartheid South Africa respectively ...however, this in no way dimished the right to fight -through both violent and peaceful means- against these systems and their racist exclusivist institutions.
Palestinians who have had their homes, lands stolen and their family members killed must be offered an acceptable solution in terms of justice regained, recompensation or restitution and their right of return must be impeccably respected and protected . This is the only fair solution.
Do you know what these spies do? They tell Israel whom to assassinate, how and where. We have and had their share in Lebanon. They do it for money and clout.
There is not to be any confusion here. Its a war being waged against Palestinians and the rule of war and, especially, the rules they live under are extraordinary and do not succumb to those of civilian life and peaceful relations between countries. Do we even imagine that the court system in Gaza functions properly under the conditions they live in? Do you know, for instance, that spies working for Israel in Gaza have been functioning without such punitive actions for many many years until this point, untilin a military this last murderous spree by their employer, Israel.
Yes, in a war, in a military situation, under such extraordinary situations, this is what happens to spies. The mention of court in that article is funny and I bet is being phrased without context...what court? Gaza is in ruins...and before it was in ruins, people were on the verge of near starvation, chocked by Israel's siege.
Yes, this will happen. But why do you paste it into this thread? By showing us that Hamas executes spies who help Israel in murdering Palestinian resistance factions and destroying PAlestinian infrastructure (erm, what, do you think they're going to give them a kiss on their forehead and let them go?) , do you wish to further vilify the Palestinians side by vilifying Hamas and therefore, in however pathetic manner possible, somehow suggest that Israel is not the actual villain here?
After its, Israel's, sordid history of a racist colonizer, its history of massacres and population displacement and this latest massacre of civilians and children...all you care to do is tell us that Hamas execute spies who make it easier for Israel to kill the Palestinian population? Atrociously myopic.
So far, non of the Muslim haters here have been directly addressed the points and factual documentation tammuz and very few others (including myself) have been posting here in last 3-4 months but only hasbara type lies and Orwellian euphemism of hatred for Islam.
Then you go on and write long sentences about how much philosophy you read in other threads?
You were referencing the dialogue within this forum. Please point to tacit anti-Islamism.
Also, note the reversal of logic. You and Tammuz have long decried the conflation of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in page after page of this drawn-out "debate" (if you can even call it that).
Suddenly, critique of Palestinian actions is tantamount to anti-Islamism. Can you smell the hypocrisy?
I and (tammuz) never said anything anti semitic. There are too many people I love who are semites (Jewish and Muslim and Christians). Watch what you say!
Its almost repulsively funny how these Zionist bots are so willing to (one could almost, but not really, say concernedly) talk of "extrajudicial killing" of Palestinian (spies who work for the Israeli army and intelligence, therefore de facto proxy enemy military figures) by Hamas when the "extrajudicial" killing of thousands of Palestinians (and again, read my related post quoted by this latest Zionist bot to enter this thread), the mass "extrajudicial" deportation/displacement/oppression (in fact, the ethnic cleansing and incremental genocide within Palestine) of the Palestinians, now and historically, by the Zionist colonialists does not phase them one little bit.
Its less funny but equally as transparent in its insidiousness how they are ready to fish for the smallest detail in order to score cheap points to serve their purpose of demonizing, of throwing up mirages around the greater picture (the historical crime perpetrated and still being perpetrated against Palestinians). They decontextualize, they put on airs, they insult and defame....anything but to counter the facts and evidence of Israel's historical and mass crimes against Palestinians.
It is even less funny but yet even more overt how each of these Zionist bots are almost exact replicas of each other in coming out to attack any attacks against that colonial murdering entity that calls itself Israel. They are almost so identical, so by the book, so similarly trained, that they start merging into one another, a militia of liars.
Should Non-Entities see this thread as a Non-Entity, then why are they so vexed that they keep on appearing on here cheering for the pro-killers pro-murderers and pro-land usurper side?
Israeli settlers seized seven building consisting of 22 flats in the town of Silwan, in occupied East Jerusalem, this morning.
Lawyer and Jerusalem Affairs Advisor for the Palestinian Presidency, Ahmed Rwaidy, told the Anadolu news agency that "Israeli settlers seized seven buildings in Silwan under the protection of Israeli police, a form of Israeli aggression on the great city of Jerusalem."
Rwaidy, a resident of Silwan, said: "A large number of Israeli army and police forces arrived in the early hours of the morning to enable the settlers to take over the buildings."
TAM, dumb posts deserve ridicule and your tread is no exception. Just because you and Orhan are blind does mean your slogganistic obsession goes un-checked.
Decide...non entity....or thread deserving of getting checked and effort put into by way of your responses, championing the murderer's side each and every time . I'm not blind enough to not spot your self contradiction. You obviously have a stake in this and are as equally "guilty" of being partisan as anyone else discussing on this thread (except your guilt places you on the colonial murderer side)...and this makes this thread a non-non entity for you.
Nearly a month after Israel’s military offensive against the Gaza Strip ended in an indefinite ceasefire on 26 August, Israeli forces continue to shoot at and detain Palestinian fishermen.
The Israeli military has captured ten fishermen and confiscated four fishing boats, while firing live ammunition in dozens of attacks on both the sea and shore of the besieged coastal enclave.
A day before its security cabinet ordered the military operation on 7 July, and two days before its forces started intensely bombarding the Gaza Strip, Israel unilaterally reduced the permitted zone it had imposed on Palestinian fishermen to three nautical miles from the shore.
Its navy had previously allowed them to sail as far as six nautical miles after a ceasefire ended eight days of Israeli attacks on Gaza and retaliatory Palestinian rocket fire in November 2012
Tammuz, you're willfully blind. Palestinian civilians died because Hamas embedded weapons in densely populated areas. Israel warned those residing in buildings with weapons that they would be bombed. The BBC has reported that Hamas ENCOURAGED civilian residents to remain in buildings after those warnings.
Every human life is valuable and war is hell. Make ZERO mistake about my stance on that. But a sovereign is entitled to defend itself against rocket attacks.
You must feel pretty special about your "intellectual position" here to be so blind to reality. It's like your an apple fan-boy camping outside a shop weeks before the newest shiny toy is to be released: You just know that you're the special one just because you subscribe, or more correctly, are a slave to, to their product. No matter what, you'll cheer their product and hold yourself above criticism because of it. There is no negotiation with such depth of delusion.
^Alternative. You appear new to this gong-show. TAM and Orhan are hopeless causes in this discussion. Don't take them seriously as you would be giving their "cause" the illusion of realism.
TAM, I have no stake in this as you allude, only a rational mind that sees many flaws in your position.
the term 'bot' is often used to describe a "web robot," which is a script or software program written to perform repetitive tasks. an example might be duplicating posts from one source to another.
if anyone you're engaging in dialogue with were a bot, they would be a fairly extraordinary example of artificial intelligence. while you disagree with what they're saying, they are responding to your comments in a manner that suggests they understand what you are posting. computer programs don't do that.
the majority of comments on this thread coming from tammuz (not all; recent discussions do indicate there is a human involved with his account) do not indicate much of any association to previous comments, suggesting they were more or less automated (even if through copy/paste rather than a script).
for example, images such as this:
Friday September 19, 2014 23:45 by IMEMC News & Agencies
pretty clearly suggest they are copied from some other source, unless tammuz actually felt like inserting a "report this" image into an architect forum. is there any reason to believe he even read these or watched the hour long videos before posting them here? obviously tammuz isn't interested in learning new things. he gets mad when someone suggests "harmonic" could have multiple meanings.
perhaps the real goal is to cross-link websites that get no traffic due to their bias and lack of real content with a forum that gets more traffic in order to increase their google page rank? that would be the sort of thing you write a bot for....
Call me what you will, my conscience is clear for not supporting children and women killers. As far as I'm concerned you are non entities cowardly hiding behind anonymous internet names and talking nothing worthwhile.
^Alternative, Orhan is a moderator in this forum and unfortunately supports this type of fodder. But, unlike TAMMUZ, I understand he contributes useful material and articles on other subjects.
Even-though these posts are filled to the brim with nonsense, no-one here in this forum is censored. What we gain with this freedom is dumb bias posts like this one which many of us here have no problem ridiculing.
Pi Glilot bombingMay 23, 2002North of Tel AvivNoneA bomb exploded underneath a fuel truck. The truck burst into flames, but the blaze was quickly contained.
Studio 49 Disco bombingMay 24, 2002Tel Aviv5 injuredThe security guard opened fire on a Palestinian attempting to detonate a car bomb. The Palestinian was killed, but the bomb exploded prematurely, injuring bystanders.
1st Umm al-Fahm bombingAugust 5, 2002Umm al-Fahm Junction inWadi Ara1 injuredThe Palestinian exploded in a taxi killing himself and wounding an Israeli-Arab driver from Nazareth.
3rd Kfar Darom bombingMay 19, 2003Gaza Strip3 injuredA Palestinian suicide bomber riding a bicycle blew up himself next to a military jeep. Hamasclaimed responsibility.
4th Erez Crossing attackMarch 6, 2004Gaza Strip3The victims were Palestinian policemen who died in a shooting spree and suicide car bomb attack. Two of the vehicles exploded on the Palestinian side of the crossing. Four Palestinians were killed. There were no IDF casualties. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the military wing of Fatah claimed responsibility.
Deir al-Balah suicide attackApril 26, 2004Gaza Strip2The victims were Palestinians killed when a suicide bomber detonated himself on the way to carry out an attack in Israel.
They can argue all they want. What I do find troubling is potential censorship on the board, but I'll give Orhan the benefit of the doubt for the next 24 hours.
Archinect, please boycott Israel (its about time!)
Miko Peled (FB entry) : "Anyone who talks about the occupation of Palestine as something that began in 1967 is wasting air and time. All of Israel is occupied Palestine it started in 1948, all Israelis are settlers and colonizers and all Israeli cities and towns are illegal settlements. Now let's talk about getting rid of the apartheid regime and instituting a democracy that respects human rights and civil rights and the right to live of everyone that lives between the river and the sea. Time to demand unconditional release of all Palestinian prisoners, unconditional lifting of siege on Gaza and free and fair one person one vote elections. Anything short if that is a waste if time and breath. Almost 7 decades of Zionist racist apartheid is more than enough, how many more civilians does Israel need to murder before people speak up..."
From Israeli forces demolish 5-story residential building in Abu Dis
Published today 11:57
BETHLEHEM (Ma'an) -- Israeli forces demolished three floors of a residential Palestinian building in Abu Dis overnight Sunday on the pretext that the owners lacked building permission, locals said.
Witnesses told Ma'an that five Israeli bulldozers accompanied by Israeli forces surrounded a five-story building in Abu Dis after midnight and began demolishing three floors at around 1:40 a.m.
Israeli forces closed all roads leading to the building before the demolition.
Owner Muatasim Adilah, a lecturer at Al-Quds University, said that Israeli forces ordered him and his family to leave the building without being allowed to remove any belongings.
(...)
Israel destroyed more than 500 Palestinian properties in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 2013, displacing over 850 people, according to UN figures.
“If you mean whose side should we be on: Israel or the Arabs? I would certainly say Israel because it’s the advanced, technological, civilized country amidst a group of almost totally primitive savages“–Ayn Rand (1979, The Donahue Show)
Apparently civilized people think they have the right to commit genocide by any other name, dispossession, steal other people's lands, treat other people like subhumans....and cite such despicable racist quotes. You're not doing yourself a favour...
Russel Tribunal finds evidence of incitement to genocide , crimes against humanity in Gaza
Keep Calm and support Racism, Dispossession, Murder and Land Theft
From Israeli teenagers: Racist and proud of it
Ethnic hatred has become a basic element in the everyday life of Israeli youth, a forthcoming book finds.
By Or Kashti |
Aug. 23, 2014 | 12:20 PM |
15
Members of right-wing organization Lehava protesting the wedding of a Jewish-born woman and a Muslim man in Rishon Letzion, August 17, 2014. Photo by Ofer Vaknin
By Or Kashti | Aug. 27, 2014 | 5:52 AM |
1
“For me, personally, Arabs are something I can’t look at and can’t stand,” a 10th-grade girl from a high school in the central part of the country says in abominable Hebrew. “I am tremendously racist. I come from a racist home. If I get the chance in the army to shoot one of them, I won’t think twice. I’m ready to kill someone with my hands, and it’s an Arab. In my education I learned that ... their education is to be terrorists, and there is no belief in them. I live in an area of Arabs, and every day I see these Ishmaelites, who pass by the [bus] station and whistle. I wish them death.”
And then they go to the IDF when they're older and serve their colony...ie oppress and kill the colonized, Palestinians:
Some take it like this and some like that. There are people who… Okay, I killed a kid, okay. They laugh. Yes, now I can draw a balloon on my weapon. A balloon instead of an X. Or a smiley (soldiers draw marks on their weapons to signify people they killed).
@tammuz - how delightfully one-sided of you. The Palestinians and their obvious record of being a peace loving people, without a hateful or racist bone in their body...as a people. Such is the plight of such an innocent people, forced into such horrific behavior because of the Jewish people...nice argument, and one that you seem committed to making, over and over again...that is apparently your cause...a cause that can never cost too much..as you affirmed time and time again....which is your undoing.
Almost 1,000 posts into your absurd thread and you have yet to realize not the futility in your position but the untenable nature of it. At one point you will be forced to realize that your barbaric screams fall upon deaf ears and your inclination, the Palestinian inclination, is to cut that ear off. But alas, these ears are not deaf, they hear your cries, your pleas to hold on to an archaic method of problem solving, an archaic method of "being a people". But your cries are not cries to be left alone - they are by their very nature insistent of infecting everyone else...your own call for genocide for those who disagree with you mutes the indignant and public relation devised whispers of a Palestinian genocide...your hyperbole merely reveals your arrogance.
The irony is that the Palestinians do not want peace, never have never will...it is not the way of the uncivilized...peace is not primal condition...fear and seclusion are...this is what Hamas sells and it is in surplus across the Palestine markets...but the shelf life is not long for this world, and your attempts to re-package, re-brand, and regurgitate the Palestinian hate message are blatant.
I believe your strategy of bashing Israel, or claiming that israel is the same as or worse than Palestine, as a means to gain sympathy just does not conclude from the evidence...civilized people ,like those at Archinect, are able to discern the truths, motives, and actions of the Palestinians, Hamas, and other primitive cultures...and what history teaches us is that only those which can adapt will survive...you may call that genocide...but i call it suicide.
Palestinian kids taught to hate Israel in UN-funded camps, clip shows | The Times of Israel http://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-kids-taught-to-hate-israel-in-un-funded-camps-clip-shows/#ixzz3EjTtEr24
New video footage appears to show Palestinian children in summer camps run by the United Nations Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) being taught that “Jews are the wolf,” and that they will one day conquer Israeli cities by force
...
Created in 1949 to aid Palestinian refugees, UNRWA has been slammed by some in Israel and the US for backing terror organizations and causing more harm than good.
...
“I will defeat the Jews,” a camper named Tayma tells the documentary crew. “They are a gang of infidels and Christians. They don’t like Allah and do not worship Allah. And they hate us.”
I was wondering when Ayn Rand was going to come to Israel's rescue.
As far as I am concerned, the whole region is fucked, and Jews and Arabs alike get what they deserve as long as they perpetuate this ancient conflict. Tammuz, this really belongs as a blog since you obviously are not interested in engaging with those holding moderate positions, only in baiting and engaging those at the opposite extreme from you. No one cares about the Palestinians. I wish I could, but I've got my own problems and my own country that is going to hell. Subgenus - quoting Ayn Rand? How very novel of you. Funny what FLW said about the Fountainhead and the rest of her work...
archanonymous, what ancient conflict? This is about colonizers and colonized; this is not about religion - even if the injustice is done in its name- its about theft of land, kicking a native population out in order to replace it with a Eurocentric other. In a world that doesn't succumb to ignorance and obfuscation, the very polarization of Arab vs Jew or Jew vs Arab is idiotic. There have always been Jewish Arabs, as there were Christian Arabs as there were Moslem Arabs. The nationalization and racializing of Judaism - a religion that knew conversion in its history as much as Christianity and islam- are relatively novel ideas that go back to the 19th century romantic nationalism, the same that generated Nazism and the idea of a superior White race...instead of White, here replaced with Jewish within the context of a colonial outpost.
This is neither an ancient conflict -it dates back from the late 19th century, effective early 20th- nor do the Palestinians deserve this, as you put it. They were not the people who stole other's lands, who generated massacre after massacre in order to get Palestine rid of Palestinians in order to reestablish the land as Israel. This is not a an ancient conflict but a contemporary case of racial colonialism, mass persecution and incremental genocide. Keeping in mind that the USA's support for Israel outweighs the support its own citizens garner from it, Americans should be extremely -in moral and practical terms- concerned with exactly this issue. In fact, anyone who has any normalizing disposition towards Israel is de facto morally compromised...as she or he would have been had they had such a disposition towards Apartheid South Africa or Rhodesian colony.
You might not care for Palestinians and you might not understand what the nature of the "conflict" is....but don't blame me for your ignorance and apathy...because you would be topping your messy cake with the cherry of stupidity.
Should you not care, you would not post in, or read, this thread.
Also, while you might be apathetic -whether because you are stubbornly ignorant or because you have psychopathic tendencies- the fact is that the BDS movement calling for the boycott of Israel is increasingly effective globally and people around the world are waking up to that lie that Israel is a "normal country" and realizing its nature, thanks to Israel's own heinous crimes and episodic massacres of Palestinians justified on -except for the blindly pro-Zionist ideologue or brainwashed or bought-over zio-zombie- transparent lies. First by seeing the pattern of killing and then by rationally reading the history of Israel's coming into being, they realize that Israel started as a colony and continues to be a colony, pre-1967 or post-1967 so-called "borders" (Israel does not have official borders in its true nature as an expansive colony). Israel pre- or pos-1967 is an abomination, a historical crime against humanity. To accept it is to accept that its fine to live with a murderer and land usurper.
To accept and normalize with Israel is to not be able to have ethical integrity again or else, to be hypocritical and deceitful.
Many Arabs these days will try to convince the world that Israelis are the violent ones, that Jews started the conflict. They say that before 1948, all was peaceful. The truth is, Arabs have been instilling hatred toward Jews in their people for generations upon generations. The Arab attacks against Jews in recent times began as early as 1920, though they really have been going on for centuries when Jews had dhimmi status while living in Muslim controlled lands, and there were many massacres such as the one in Hebron in 1929. Over 100 Jews were killed in that year alone.
There were anti-Jewish riots in 1920 and 1921. The Hebron incident in 1929 was a massacre of the Jewish community there. There was an Arab Revolt from 1936 to 1939. These are just a few of the major attacks, but there were murders which occurred practically every single year between 1920 and 1948, and they continue to this day.
This hatred and wish to annihilate Jews is the brainwashing process that begins from the time Muslim Arabs (and especially Palestinians) are born. Instead of being fed love, with their mothers’ milk they are fed hatred and violence. Children repeat what they hear, and they glorify “martyrdom” (which is nothing more than terrorism) in preschool and kindergarten plays. Even in children’s cartoons, these are the “ideals” they are being taught.
A new Pew Research Center survey showed that people living under the Palestinian Authority and Hamas dislike the U.S. more than any other group, with 76% of respondents, the most on the list, qualifying America as an “enemy.”
More lies and obfuscations. Palestinian jews (yes Palestinian arab jews!), Christians and Moslems lived in Palestine, and the same in Lebanon, Egypt, Yemen with little to no trouble until the advent of colonialism - be it European or Ottoman or back to European and thereafter Zionism. What many fail to realize is that Arabs have been through a long history of colonialism .
My grandmother's family grew up with Palestinian jewish and Christian neighbours and it was actually impolite to even explicitly point people out by religion. Traditions were shared and respected.
As for the Hebron massacre...yet again, this can only be explained by looking at the context of the advent of Zionism and its colonization of Palestine. As I had stated many times, not only are and were the Palestinian Christians and moslems victims of Zionism but so were, in another way, Palestinian Jews AND Jews around the world...who have been made a hostage of a contemporary formula "good Jew=Zionist" that has no basis neither in their religion nor in their history. Zionism is nothing but colonialism donning on the guise of Judaism; this is not about Jews vs Arabs or Palestinians or Jews. This is about Zionist colonization, murderous and plunderous, and its aftereffects.
From Context needed for reference to 1929 Hebron massacre
...like most people, fails to recognize that the massacre in Hebron in 1929 was part of regionwide riots between Arabs and Jews that began several days earlier in Jerusalem.
Your piece would have us assume that Palestine Arabs killed Hebron Jews for . . . why? A fit of racist ethnic cleansing? Is that what the local settlers there told you? Why do you offer no explanation or context for an infamous massacre? An incredible omission, I’d say.
Significantly, the bloody riots in Jerusalem started after Zionists there paraded nationalist banners at the Wailing Wall in a brazen provocation against Ottoman-era bans of such displays that had been in force for many years. These and other Zionist actions at the Wailing Wall (at the time owned and maintained by Arabs) were specifically designed to provoke a violent reaction among local Palestinians. Well, it worked.
Once the killing in Jerusalem started, that news along with false rumors of Jewish attacks on the Al-Aqsa Mosque spread quickly to Hebron, where the local Palestinians, in an unjustified fit of faux revenge, killed the non-Zionist religious Jews, whose small community had lived in Hebron in peace for hundreds of years.
In fact, the August 1929 riots in Jerusalem, Hebron and elsewhere resulted in “207 dead and 379 wounded among the population of Palestine, of which the dead included eighty-seven Arabs (Christian and Moslem) and 120 Jews, the wounded 181 Arabs and 198 Jews.” according to official British casualty lists, as recounted by American journalist James Vincent Sheean reporting from Palestine during these troubles.
like most people, fails to recognize that the massacre in Hebron in 1929 was part of regionwide riots between Arabs and Jews that began several days earlier in Jerusalem.
Your piece would have us assume that Palestine Arabs killed Hebron Jews for . . . why? A fit of racist ethnic cleansing? Is that what the local settlers there told you? Why do you offer no explanation or context for an infamous massacre? An incredible omission, I’d say.
Significantly, the bloody riots in Jerusalem started after Zionists there paraded nationalist banners at the Wailing Wall in a brazen provocation against Ottoman-era bans of such displays that had been in force for many years. These and other Zionist actions at the Wailing Wall (at the time owned and maintained by Arabs) were specifically designed to provoke a violent reaction among local Palestinians. Well, it worked.
Once the killing in Jerusalem started, that news along with false rumors of Jewish attacks on the Al-Aqsa Mosque spread quickly to Hebron, where the local Palestinians, in an unjustified fit of faux revenge, killed the non-Zionist religious Jews, whose small community had lived in Hebron in peace for hundreds of years.
In fact, the August 1929 riots in Jerusalem, Hebron and elsewhere resulted in “207 dead and 379 wounded among the population of Palestine, of which the dead included eighty-seven Arabs (Christian and Moslem) and 120 Jews, the wounded 181 Arabs and 198 Jews.” according to official British casualty lists, as recounted by American journalist James Vincent Sheean reporting from Palestine during these troubles.
Also, with respect to subgenuis' citation of disliking the USA, without a doubt, and without any disrespect to US citizens, when the US adminstrations pummels billions of dollars into Israel, supports it unconditionally in its support of the murder of Palestinians...when the US has an equally honorable history of destroying other countries and peoples in the region and around the world on the basis of lies , don't be so upset that the US is despised. Especially when it talks of democracy....then goes on to destroy a country, then pretends it did so out of naivety.
Also, it is very sleazy of subgenuis to be playing this card. What does it have to do with making Israel look better or Palestinians look worse? She or he is trying to tell you this: because they, Palestinians, don't like the US (which is very justifiable given the US record), then you, US citizens should support Israel not Palestinians (ie rather than rectifying your mistakes, you should move to a more extreme level of making mistakes).
This is transparently blatant and dumb propaganda that is not even intrinsically linked to either her or his faulty reasoning or her or his lies. The likes of subgenuis are here to defend Israel at all costs, sacrificing logic, ethics, and plain common sense.
@tammuz
your last post pretty much sums up your position and sums up the current teaching and tradition of Palestine.
1. Palestine is justified in hating America.
2. America needs to atone.
3. Palestine will not practice forgiveness.
These 3 reasons are why this forum should boycott Israel and why America should give you money and weapons to kill Jewish people.
Good luck with that.
Again subgenuis tries to turn this into a perverted twisted lie where the Jews are at the receiving end.
We`re talking about Zionists not Jews...people whose ideology is to steal other's lands and homes, banish the Palestinians and kill and oppress those remaining
. Ìf they, Zionists, coming from the four corners of the world to kick native residents out , chose to steal and kill in the belief that some God gave them an ancient promise that the land is theirs -and this shows that Israel, Zionists, is the first extrmist fundamnetalist terrorist organization in the contemporary history of the Middle East- this, firstly, does not give them the right to speak for all Jews...just as ISIS does not have the right to speak for all Muslims... and this does not place them in the role of victims. Stop crying for the murderer.
The colonized has every right to fight back against the colonizer as the victim of rape has every right to fight against a rapist. Whoever stands by the colonizer, equips it and cheers it on is of course complicit. This should clear..and this should stop. Stoping military support for this colonial entity should be one way; another are economic and cultural boycotts. Governments are unfortunately the last to budge; the civil society is being the spearhead and architects and related organisations (Archinect, for instance) are of course not exempt.
Israel cannot survive in the long term and will one day belong to the dark chapters of dwindling eurocentric colonialism and a pathological aftereffect of european racism firstly against european jews then sublimized by a part of the latter against arabs.
what about the people living in israel who are not zionist, but want to live in their homes and on their land which has, in some cases, been in their families for generations and even part of the israeli government for generations? should the palestinians have a right to steal their land, banish them, and kill them? should you have the right to their land since you might have a relative a couple generations back that was a palestinian? to be clear, you're not against stealing land or killing people, you just want to pick who gets killed right?
don't answer those questions. you're arguments can't face much scrutiny because you ignore all of history that doesn't support your desire to hate people, and then set up a make-believe 'zionist' strawman to hang all your racism on. not saying that the israelis haven't given the palestinians good reason to hate them, but someone who wanted to pretend to be educated would probably at least make an effort to pretend to show they've made an attempt to understand other perspectives.
curtkram, your post is full of unreasonable associations and pettiness; whether you want me or don'want want me to answer your silly questions is besides the point when measured against the display of stupidity, dishonesty and ignorance of your post, especially given that I have previously stated to you, several times, my stance relative to people living in what is now know as Israel and what one day will no longer be recognized as Israel.
Whether there are, in your view, non-Zionists living in Israel is inconsequential given that the state defines itself as Zionist, when Jews who have nothing to do with Palestine are invited from across the world to perform aliyah and settle in Palestinian homes or establish theirs on confiscated Palestinian land that have had their residents kicked out to make way for a Jewish state. Similarly, there were good germans/austrians/polish/etc and good white south africans living within the Nazi regime and apartheid South Africa respectively ...however, this in no way dimished the right to fight -through both violent and peaceful means- against these systems and their racist exclusivist institutions.
Palestinians who have had their homes, lands stolen and their family members killed must be offered an acceptable solution in terms of justice regained, recompensation or restitution and their right of return must be impeccably respected and protected . This is the only fair solution.
Still beating this dead horse are you TAM?
Curt describes your position very well, it's a shame you're not able to see things objectively.
Reminder: Tammuz has advocated for the extrajudicial killing of Palestinians who have acted against Hamas.
t a m m u z
(History|Contact)
Aug 23, 14 7:09 pm
Do you know what these spies do? They tell Israel whom to assassinate, how and where. We have and had their share in Lebanon. They do it for money and clout.
There is not to be any confusion here. Its a war being waged against Palestinians and the rule of war and, especially, the rules they live under are extraordinary and do not succumb to those of civilian life and peaceful relations between countries. Do we even imagine that the court system in Gaza functions properly under the conditions they live in? Do you know, for instance, that spies working for Israel in Gaza have been functioning without such punitive actions for many many years until this point, untilin a military this last murderous spree by their employer, Israel.
Yes, in a war, in a military situation, under such extraordinary situations, this is what happens to spies. The mention of court in that article is funny and I bet is being phrased without context...what court? Gaza is in ruins...and before it was in ruins, people were on the verge of near starvation, chocked by Israel's siege.
Yes, this will happen. But why do you paste it into this thread? By showing us that Hamas executes spies who help Israel in murdering Palestinian resistance factions and destroying PAlestinian infrastructure (erm, what, do you think they're going to give them a kiss on their forehead and let them go?) , do you wish to further vilify the Palestinians side by vilifying Hamas and therefore, in however pathetic manner possible, somehow suggest that Israel is not the actual villain here?
After its, Israel's, sordid history of a racist colonizer, its history of massacres and population displacement and this latest massacre of civilians and children...all you care to do is tell us that Hamas execute spies who make it easier for Israel to kill the Palestinian population? Atrociously myopic.
So far, non of the Muslim haters here have been directly addressed the points and factual documentation tammuz and very few others (including myself) have been posting here in last 3-4 months but only hasbara type lies and Orwellian euphemism of hatred for Islam.
Then you go on and write long sentences about how much philosophy you read in other threads?
Keep going.
Orhan, your writing is incoherent. Furthermore, where are the anti-Muslim posts?
Ah, back to defending religion now? I thought this nonsense was not about magical thinking and other stupid traditions.
Carry-on with your delusions.
They are everywhere (even openly on buses in New York). Look deeper you might find it exists in you as well.
You were referencing the dialogue within this forum. Please point to tacit anti-Islamism.
Also, note the reversal of logic. You and Tammuz have long decried the conflation of anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism in page after page of this drawn-out "debate" (if you can even call it that).
Suddenly, critique of Palestinian actions is tantamount to anti-Islamism. Can you smell the hypocrisy?
I and (tammuz) never said anything anti semitic. There are too many people I love who are semites (Jewish and Muslim and Christians). Watch what you say!
a threat? oooooooooh, scary.
I never claimed that you said anything anti-Semitic. Reread my post and try again.
Non Sequitur you should change your handle to 'non entity." Since when defending yourself against lies and defamation become "threat?"
You are full of euphemisms and lies. And full of shit!
...and this tread is a non-entity as well. Everything is in a happy balance. Praise insert insulting deity's name here. Hurrah for blinders!
"watch what you say" sounds like a threat though.
Orhan, you're really embarrassing yourself.
Its almost repulsively funny how these Zionist bots are so willing to (one could almost, but not really, say concernedly) talk of "extrajudicial killing" of Palestinian (spies who work for the Israeli army and intelligence, therefore de facto proxy enemy military figures) by Hamas when the "extrajudicial" killing of thousands of Palestinians (and again, read my related post quoted by this latest Zionist bot to enter this thread), the mass "extrajudicial" deportation/displacement/oppression (in fact, the ethnic cleansing and incremental genocide within Palestine) of the Palestinians, now and historically, by the Zionist colonialists does not phase them one little bit.
Its less funny but equally as transparent in its insidiousness how they are ready to fish for the smallest detail in order to score cheap points to serve their purpose of demonizing, of throwing up mirages around the greater picture (the historical crime perpetrated and still being perpetrated against Palestinians). They decontextualize, they put on airs, they insult and defame....anything but to counter the facts and evidence of Israel's historical and mass crimes against Palestinians.
It is even less funny but yet even more overt how each of these Zionist bots are almost exact replicas of each other in coming out to attack any attacks against that colonial murdering entity that calls itself Israel. They are almost so identical, so by the book, so similarly trained, that they start merging into one another, a militia of liars.
Should Non-Entities see this thread as a Non-Entity, then why are they so vexed that they keep on appearing on here cheering for the pro-killers pro-murderers and pro-land usurper side?
...and they're still up to their shenanigans, these Zionist terrorists. Stealing lands, buildings, homes...
From Israeli settlers seize seven buildings in East Jerusalem
Tuesday, 30 September 2014 10:58
[file photo - not from the flats in Silwan]
Israeli settlers seized seven building consisting of 22 flats in the town of Silwan, in occupied East Jerusalem, this morning.
Lawyer and Jerusalem Affairs Advisor for the Palestinian Presidency, Ahmed Rwaidy, told the Anadolu news agency that "Israeli settlers seized seven buildings in Silwan under the protection of Israeli police, a form of Israeli aggression on the great city of Jerusalem."
Rwaidy, a resident of Silwan, said: "A large number of Israeli army and police forces arrived in the early hours of the morning to enable the settlers to take over the buildings."
TAM, dumb posts deserve ridicule and your tread is no exception. Just because you and Orhan are blind does mean your slogganistic obsession goes un-checked.
Decide...non entity....or thread deserving of getting checked and effort put into by way of your responses, championing the murderer's side each and every time . I'm not blind enough to not spot your self contradiction. You obviously have a stake in this and are as equally "guilty" of being partisan as anyone else discussing on this thread (except your guilt places you on the colonial murderer side)...and this makes this thread a non-non entity for you.
Israel forces Gaza fishermen to undress in attack violating ceasefire deal
Joe Catron
The Electronic Intifada
Gaza Strip
23 September 2014
070814_mo_00_10.jpg
Palestinian fishermen unload their catch at the Gaza City seaport on 7 August.
(Mohammed Asad / APA images)
Nearly a month after Israel’s military offensive against the Gaza Strip ended in an indefinite ceasefire on 26 August, Israeli forces continue to shoot at and detain Palestinian fishermen.
The Israeli military has captured ten fishermen and confiscated four fishing boats, while firing live ammunition in dozens of attacks on both the sea and shore of the besieged coastal enclave.
A day before its security cabinet ordered the military operation on 7 July, and two days before its forces started intensely bombarding the Gaza Strip, Israel unilaterally reduced the permitted zone it had imposed on Palestinian fishermen to three nautical miles from the shore.
Its navy had previously allowed them to sail as far as six nautical miles after a ceasefire ended eight days of Israeli attacks on Gaza and retaliatory Palestinian rocket fire in November 2012
Tammuz, you're willfully blind. Palestinian civilians died because Hamas embedded weapons in densely populated areas. Israel warned those residing in buildings with weapons that they would be bombed. The BBC has reported that Hamas ENCOURAGED civilian residents to remain in buildings after those warnings.
Every human life is valuable and war is hell. Make ZERO mistake about my stance on that. But a sovereign is entitled to defend itself against rocket attacks.
You must feel pretty special about your "intellectual position" here to be so blind to reality. It's like your an apple fan-boy camping outside a shop weeks before the newest shiny toy is to be released: You just know that you're the special one just because you subscribe, or more correctly, are a slave to, to their product. No matter what, you'll cheer their product and hold yourself above criticism because of it. There is no negotiation with such depth of delusion.
^Alternative. You appear new to this gong-show. TAM and Orhan are hopeless causes in this discussion. Don't take them seriously as you would be giving their "cause" the illusion of realism.
TAM, I have no stake in this as you allude, only a rational mind that sees many flaws in your position.
Does Orhan moderate this board?
what is a "zionist bot?"
the term 'bot' is often used to describe a "web robot," which is a script or software program written to perform repetitive tasks. an example might be duplicating posts from one source to another.
if anyone you're engaging in dialogue with were a bot, they would be a fairly extraordinary example of artificial intelligence. while you disagree with what they're saying, they are responding to your comments in a manner that suggests they understand what you are posting. computer programs don't do that.
the majority of comments on this thread coming from tammuz (not all; recent discussions do indicate there is a human involved with his account) do not indicate much of any association to previous comments, suggesting they were more or less automated (even if through copy/paste rather than a script).
for example, images such as this:
pretty clearly suggest they are copied from some other source, unless tammuz actually felt like inserting a "report this" image into an architect forum. is there any reason to believe he even read these or watched the hour long videos before posting them here? obviously tammuz isn't interested in learning new things. he gets mad when someone suggests "harmonic" could have multiple meanings.
perhaps the real goal is to cross-link websites that get no traffic due to their bias and lack of real content with a forum that gets more traffic in order to increase their google page rank? that would be the sort of thing you write a bot for....
Edited.
Call me what you will, my conscience is clear for not supporting children and women killers. As far as I'm concerned you are non entities cowardly hiding behind anonymous internet names and talking nothing worthwhile.
^Alternative, Orhan is a moderator in this forum and unfortunately supports this type of fodder. But, unlike TAMMUZ, I understand he contributes useful material and articles on other subjects.
Even-though these posts are filled to the brim with nonsense, no-one here in this forum is censored. What we gain with this freedom is dumb bias posts like this one which many of us here have no problem ridiculing.
Oh, right, you don't support those who kill women and children. But you apparently support Hamas, Orhan?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks
Since 2000:
2000 (5 bombings)[edit]
NameDateLocationDeath tollNotes
Gaza bombingOctober 26, 2000Gaza Strip1 injuredYouth suicide bomber on bike. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Mahane Yehuda Market attackNovember 2, 2000Jerusalem2Booby-trapped car. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Kfar Darom bombingNovember 20, 2000Gaza Strip2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera main street bombingNovember 22, 2000Hadera2Booby-trapped car. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Mehola bombingDecember 22, 2000Mehola Junction3 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
2001 (40 bombings)[edit]
NameDateLocationDeath tollNotes
Netanya centre bombingJanuary 1, 2001Netanya60 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Tayibe Bridge bombingJanuary 30, 2001Tayibe2 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Beit Yisrael bombingFebruary 8, 2001Jerusalem2 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Mei Ami junction bombingMarch 1, 2001Vadi Ara1Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netanya bombingMarch 4, 2001Netanya3Hamas claimed responsibility.
Talpiot industrial zone bombingMarch 27, 2001Jerusalem7 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Egged bus 6 bombingMarch 27, 2001French Hill, Jerusalem28 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Mifgash Shalom attackMarch 28, 2001Mifgash Shalom gas station, Kfar Saba2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba bombingApril 22, 2001Kfar Saba1Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Or Yehuda bombingApril 23, 2001Near Ben Gurion Airport8 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Nablus school bus bombingApril 29, 2001Nablus, West BankNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
HaSharon Mall suicide bombingMay 18, 2001HaSharon shopping mall, Netanya5Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera Mall bombingMay 25, 2001HaderaNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
Hadera bus station suicide bombingMay 25, 2001Central bus station, Hadera65 injured2 Palestinians within a car bomb. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem Center bombingMay 27, 2001JerusalemNonePFLP claimed responsibility.
Jaffa Road bombingMay 27, 2001Jerusalem30 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Netanya school bombingMay 30, 2001Netanya8 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Dolphinarium discotheque suicide bombingJune 1, 2001Tel Aviv21Hamas claimed responsibility.[10]
Dugit bombingJune 22, 2001Gaza Strip2Booby trapped car's explosion. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Yehud suburb bombingJuly 2, 2001Tel Aviv6 injuredExplosion of two separate bombs. PFLP claimed responsibility.
Kissufim bombingJuly 9, 2001Southern Gaza Strip crossing pointNoneExplosion of two separate bombs. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Binyamina train station suicide bombingJuly 16, 2001Binyamina2Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Moshav Beka'ot bombingAugust 8, 2001Northern Jordan Valley1 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Sbarro restaurant suicide bombingAugust 9, 2001Downtown Jerusalem15Carried out by Hamas together with Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Wall-Street Restaurant bombingAugust 12, 2001Kiryat Motzkin21 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Russian Compound bombingAugust 21, 2001Downtown Jerusalem1 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem car bombingsSeptember 3, 2001Jerusalem3 injuredSeries of car bombs.
Hanevi'im street bombingSeptember 4, 2001Jerusalem20 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Nahariya train station suicide bombingSeptember 9, 2001Nahariya train station3Suicide bomber was an Arab Israeli citizen. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Beit Lid junction bombingSeptember 9, 2001Near Netanya17 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Talpiot neighborhood bombingOctober 1, 2001JerusalemNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
1st Erez Crossing attackOctober 7, 2001Erez Passage near GazaNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
Kibbutz Shluhot bombingOctober 7, 2001Kibbutz Shluhot1Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
2nd Erez Crossing attackNovember 26, 2001Gaza Strip2 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
1st Egged bus 823 bombingNovember 29, 2001Wadi Ara Junction3Carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
Ben Yehuda Street BombingDecember 1, 2001Downtown Jerusalem11Hamas claimed responsibility.
Haifa bus 16 suicide bombingDecember 2, 2001Haifa15Hamas claimed responsibility.
Hilton Mamilla bombingDecember 5, 2001Mamilla, Jerusalem11 injuredCarried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Hamas.
Check Post Junction bombingDecember 9, 2001Check Post Junction in the direction of Tel Hanan(Haifa area)30 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Neve Dekalim bombingDecember 12, 2001Neve Dekalim4 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
2002 (47 bombings)[edit]
NameDateLocationDeath tollNotes
Tel Aviv outdoor mall bombingJanuary 25, 2002Tel Aviv25 injuredDouble Suicide attack, carried out by Palestinian Islamic Jihad together with Fatah.
Jaffa Street bombingJanuary 27, 2002Jerusalem1First female suicide bomber in Al-Aqsa Intifada, Wafa Idris. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Tayibe bombingJanuary 31, 2002TayibeNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
Karnei Shomron Mall suicide bombingFebruary 16, 2002Karnei Shomron, West Bank3About 30 injuries (6 seriously). PFLP claimed responsibility.[11][12]
Maale Adumim - Jerusalem road bombingFebruary 18, 2002Jerusalem1Soldier killed by an explosive that was detonated by the driver of the car he was checking. Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Efrat supermarket bombing attackFebruary 22, 2002Efrat, West Bank1 injuredSuicide bomber in supermarket.
Maccabim bombingFebruary 27, 2002Maccabim3 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Yeshivat Beit Yisrael massacreMarch 2, 2002Yeshiva in Jerusalem11Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
2nd Egged bus 823 bombingMarch 5, 2002Afula1Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.[12]
Ariel hotel lobby bombingMarch 7, 2002Ariel, West Bank15 injured (1 seriously)PFLP claimed responsibility.[12]
Café Moment bombingMarch 9, 2002Rehavia, Jerusalem11Hamas claimed responsibility.
Egged bus 22 bombingMarch 17, 2002Jerusalem25 InjuredHamas claimed responsibility.
3rd Egged bus 823 bombingMarch 20, 2002Vadi Ara, Muzmuz Junction7Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
King George Street bombingMarch 21, 2002Jerusalem3Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Passover massacreMarch 27, 2002Netanya30Suicide attack on Passover seder in Park Hotel. Carried out by Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Kiryat HaYovel supermarket bombingMarch 29, 2002Kiryat Yovel in Jerusalem2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Allenby Street coffee shop bombingMarch 30, 2002Tel Aviv1Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Baqa al-Gharbiyah bombingMarch 30, 2002Baqa al-Gharbiyah1Booby-trapped vehicle that Palestinians tried to sneak into Israel.
Matza restaurant suicide bombingMarch 31, 2002Haifa15Hamas claimed responsibility.
Efrat Medical CenterMarch 31, 2002Efrat, West Bank4 injured (1 seriously)Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem Roadblock bombingApril 1, 2002Jerusalem1Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Yagur Junction bombingApril 10, 2002Yagur8Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
3rd Mahane Yehuda Market attackApril 12, 2002Jerusalem6Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Rishon LeZion bombingMay 7, 2002Rishon LeZion15Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netanya Market bombingMay 19, 2002Netanya3Carried out by Hamas together with PFLP.
Afula road bombingMay 20, 2002AfulaNoneHamas claimed responsibility.
Rothschild Street bombingMay 22, 2002Rishon Lezion2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Pi Glilot bombingMay 23, 2002North of Tel AvivNoneA bomb exploded underneath a fuel truck. The truck burst into flames, but the blaze was quickly contained.
Studio 49 Disco bombingMay 24, 2002Tel Aviv5 injuredThe security guard opened fire on a Palestinian attempting to detonate a car bomb. The Palestinian was killed, but the bomb exploded prematurely, injuring bystanders.
Petah Tikva Mall bombingMay 27, 2002Petah Tikva2Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Megiddo Junction bus bombingJune 5, 2002Megiddo Junction17Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Herzliya shawarma restaurant bombingJune 11, 2002Herzliya1Hamas claimed responsibility.
Patt Junction Bus BombingJune 18, 2002Jerusalem19Hamas claimed responsibility.
French Hill Junction massacreJune 19, 2002French Hill, Jerusalem7Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Immanuel bus attackJuly 16, 2002Emmanuel-Bnei Brak bus 1899Detonation of an explosive device and shooting. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Neve Shaanan Street bombingJuly 17, 2002Southern Tel Aviv5Hamas claimed responsibility.
Nevi'im Street bombingJuly 30, 2002Jerusalem5 injuredApparently the bomb exploded prematurely.
Hebrew University massacreJuly 31, 2002Hebrew University, Jerusalem9Included American and French casualties. Bomber was from East Jerusalem. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Meron Junction Bus 361 attackAugust 4, 2002Meron Junction9Arab bomber with Israeli citizenship. Hamas claimed responsibility.
1st Umm al-Fahm bombingAugust 5, 2002Umm al-Fahm Junction inWadi Ara1 injuredThe Palestinian exploded in a taxi killing himself and wounding an Israeli-Arab driver from Nazareth.
2nd Umm al-Fahm bombingSeptember 18, 2002Umm al-Fahm Junction inWadi Ara1Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Allenby Street bus bombingSeptember 19, 2002bus 4, near the Great Synagogue, Tel Aviv6Hamas claimed responsibility.
Geha road bombingOctober 10, 2002Bar-Ilan interchange, Geha road1Hamas claimed responsibility.
Karkur junction suicide bombingOctober 21, 2002Carcur Junction142 Suicide bombers used a booby-trapped jeep with 100 kg TNT. Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Sonol gas station bombingOctober 27, 2002Ariel, West Bank3Victims killed while trying to prevent the Palestinian from detonating the bomb. Hamas claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba shopping mall bombingNovember 4, 2002Kfar Saba2Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kiryat Menachem bus bombingNovember 21, 2002Kiryat Menahem, Jerusalem11Hamas claimed responsibility.
2003 (23 bombings)[edit]
NameDateLocationDeath tollNotes
Tel-Aviv central bus station massacreJanuary 5, 2003Southern Tel Aviv23Carried out by two members of the Fatah Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades, with the help of Palestinian Islamic Jihad.
Haifa bus 37 suicide bombingMarch 5, 2003Carmeliya neighborhood, Haifa17Carried out by Hamas member and attributed to Hamas, yet never acknowledged.
London Cafe bombingMarch 30, 2003Netanya54 injuredPalestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kfar Saba train station bombingApril 24, 2003Kfar Saba113 injured (2 seriously). PFLP claimed responsibility jointly with Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.[12][13]
Mike's Place suicide bombingApril 30, 2003Mike's Place pub, Tel Aviv3Carried out by Hamas using a British Muslim citizen of Pakistani descent and together with al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades.
Gross square attackMay 17, 2003Gross square, Hebron, West Bank2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Jerusalem bus 6 bombingMay 18, 2003Jerusalem7Hamas claimed responsibility.
3rd Kfar Darom bombingMay 19, 2003Gaza Strip3 injuredA Palestinian suicide bomber riding a bicycle blew up himself next to a military jeep. Hamasclaimed responsibility.
Afula mall bombingMay 19, 2003Afula shopping center3Hamas claimed responsibility.
Netzarim bus bombingMay 22, 2003Netzarim, Gaza Strip9 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Davidka Square bus bombingJune 11, 2003Downtown Jerusalem17Hamas claimed responsibility.
Sdei Trumot bombingJune 19, 2003Moshav Sdei Trumot1Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Kfar Yavetz bombingJuly 7, 2003Kfar Yavetz1Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Ariel bus station bombingAugust 12, 2003Ariel, West Bank2Hamas claimed responsibility.
Rosh HaAyin bombingAugust 12, 2003Rosh HaAyin1
Shmuel HaNavi bus bombingAugust 19, 2003Shmuel Hanavi, Jerusalem23Hamas claimed responsibility.
Tzrifin bus stop attackSeptember 9, 2003Bus stop near Tzrifin army base9Hamas claimed responsibility.
Café Hillel bombingSeptember 9, 2003Hillel Cafe, Jerusalem7Hamas claimed responsibility.
Maxim restaurant suicide bombingOctober 4, 2003Haifa21Palestinian Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Tulkarem bombingOctober 9, 2003Tulkarem, West Bank3 injuredHamas claimed responsibility.
Beit Hanoun Junction bombingOctober 15, 2003Gaza Strip3The victims were part of a US diplomatic convoy.
Azzoun bombingNovember 3, 2003Azzoun, West Bank1 injuredAl-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades claimed responsibility.
Geha Interchange bus stop bombingDecember 25, 2003Geha Junction4Over 20 injured. PFLP claimed responsibility.[12][13]
2004 (17 bombings)[edit]
NameDateLocationDeath tollNotes
3rd Erez Crossing attackJanuary 14, 2004Gaza Strip4Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade and Hamas claimed joint responsibility.
Gaza Street bus bombingJanuary 29, 2004Rehavia, Jerusalem11Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade and Hamas claimed responsibility.
Liberty Bell Park bus bombingFebruary 22, 2004Liberty Bell Garden, Jerusalem8Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade claimed responsibility.
4th Erez Crossing attackMarch 6, 2004Gaza Strip3The victims were Palestinian policemen who died in a shooting spree and suicide car bomb attack. Two of the vehicles exploded on the Palestinian side of the crossing. Four Palestinians were killed. There were no IDF casualties. Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the military wing of Fatah claimed responsibility.
Ashdod Port massacreMarch 14, 2004Port of Ashdod10Double suicide bombing. Carried out by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade together with Hamas.
5th Erez Crossing attackApril 17, 2004Erez Crossing, Gaza Strip1Carried out by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigade together with Hamas.
Deir al-Balah suicide attackApril 26, 2004Gaza Strip2The victims were Palestinians killed when a suicide bomber detonated himself on the way to carry out an attack in Israel.
Beka'ot checkpoint bombingMay 22, 2004Beka'ot checkpoint, Oct 1, 14 3:34 pm ·
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I actually initiated another topic about Qatar, but it's subject to moderator approval. It has yet to appear anywhere on the site.
I posted it yesterday. Curious.
Also, Orhan, are you Turkish?
^information is like kryptonite to them.
They can argue all they want. What I do find troubling is potential censorship on the board, but I'll give Orhan the benefit of the doubt for the next 24 hours.